BITES? owner to be has questions

[thekarens]

I'd much rather be bitten by my mac than my sennies...

Hahaha! K1, that's only because you have the ultimate mush mac!

Ha! Mark is right, as a general rule macs are pinchers, just enough to say OW! Sennies do latch on and are very difficult to make let go and it hurts like heck!

 

[Birdman666]

True story: Favorite Sennie game.

We had one down at the rescue that had a favorite game. He would latch onto the end of a rope toy and hold on for dear life, and you would swing him around in a circle... and he'd fly like mad... while holding onto the rope toy... in a sort of airborne tug of war with you.

It was actually good exercise for him...

Occasionally, he'd pull the same trick with fingers when he was in a mood...

THAT'S HOW I LEARNED IT!

 

[Kiwibird]

I admit, talk of the ER has me nervous. How often do ER bites come? Seriously, pionus/amazon owners, how many times a week are you getting nailed?

Bites are part of owning a parrot, true. I have gone several years now without a bite (or even a pinch) from my zon. When he was newly adopted though, he had my hands chewed up like hamburger meat to the point I was forced to wear thick leather gloves while training him (he was a rescue though, not a handed baby). These days though, he trusts me, he knows I'm not going to hurt him and we have few issues (though he can act out during breeding season a bit). A lot changed once he was stick trained- when he's pissy, he rides the stick if he *must* be moved OR I simply leave him alone until he's in a better mood (thus avoiding being bitten altogether). My mom has 2 amazons, one has never bitten anyone in his entire life (maybe pinched) but Barney's never broken skin (he's a rarity, NOT the norm). Lucy the DYH will bite someone once or twice a year, usually when she doesn't want to go home. Usually a "bruising" bite, very rarely a break skin and draw blood bite. My mom's amazons (nor my amazon) have never prompted an ER visit, though my dad's cockatoo has on more than one occasion (but cockatoos are their own species:54.

Much of the worst biting you'll deal with occurs in the beginning when the bird does not fully trust you and/or is testing his or her boundaries. Then you may get another rash of bites a few years down the line (provided you get a baby and not a mature bird) when the bird hits puberty. For the most part though, an establish, well cared for, social bird who's owner pays attention to body language rarely bites, and very rarely breaks skin. Unless you are rescuing a disturbed bird who needs special consideration, I wouldn't be concerned about a newly weaned, hand reared baby being much of a biting issue (a few nips here and there kinda thing). If you neglect to properly socialize and train your bird and/or do not spend enough time with him/her, thats a whole other story.

 

[Kiwibird]

I'd like a female so it's less territorial. Will gender make that huge of a difference?

Not counting when Kiwi was newly adopted (and was aggressive due to distrust), the most territorial and aggressive of the 3 zons I've dealt with is the female DYH. That's MY ("mate", "baby", nest box, cage, toy ext...) and we'll just have to SEE who's the bigger badder bird here:54: She was VERY defensive of me when I was a kid (I was HER baby) and VERY defensive of her life-long "mate" Barney who is now semi-disabled (touch him and I WILL touch back!). She is an exceptionally large, wild caught bird though with a mother grizzly bear personality that comes out at times. When she is in defensive-mode, she does not back down. My male, on the other hand, occasionally gets hormone-related aggression or just gets a bit pissy and is INTIMIDATING but he is easily put in his place if you don't allow yourself to be intimidated by a football-sized animal. I think males put on a better display, but theres something to be said for that maternal instinct (which can be misplaced in captivity) females have. I would personally go for a bird you feel a good connection with and not put much, if any, emphasis on gender.

 

[Maxo]

I'd like a female so it's less territorial. Will gender make that huge of a difference?

Not counting when Kiwi was newly adopted (and was aggressive due to distrust), the most territorial and aggressive of the 3 zons I've dealt with is the female DYH. That's MY ("mate", "baby", nest box, cage, toy ext...) and we'll just have to SEE who's the bigger badder bird here:54: She was VERY defensive of me when I was a kid (I was HER baby) and VERY defensive of her life-long "mate" Barney who is now semi-disabled (touch him and I WILL touch back!). She is an exceptionally large, wild caught bird though with a mother grizzly bear personality that comes out at times. When she is in defensive-mode, she does not back down. My male, on the other hand, occasionally gets hormone-related aggression or just gets a bit pissy and is INTIMIDATING but he is easily put in his place if you don't allow yourself to be intimidated by a football-sized animal. I think males put on a better display, but theres something to be said for that maternal instinct (which can be misplaced in captivity) females have. I would personally go for a bird you feel a good connection with and not put much, if any, emphasis on gender.

That's really helpful! especially what you said about how parrots age and bond with you, how there's a big difference between the formative years and the later ones. I know my bird would be with me for three decades if I took care of him, or more, so putting in effort to make him bond with me, to me, feels worth it. I understand the long-term picture.

Also, I'm not afraid of biting period, but never having taken care of a bird leaves me questions like, even if I spend three or four hours a day with a bird, will this guy still tear my hand off every day? I know you guys who aren't bird newbies like me must laugh at that, but to pretend it doesn't cross your mind when you buy your first bird that you're responsible for on your own is nonsense. It's only human to ask those questions.

And I know there are birds that are just plain old difficult. I'm not going to pretend they don't exist. I'm just not going to worry about that, though. That's not worth worrying about.

ALSO - Is Kiwi really wild-caught? How old was she and where from? That's fascinating. Does she have problems directly related to her being wild-caught, or has she worked out fine?

 

[RavensGryf]

even if I spend three or four hours a day with a bird, will this guy still tear my hand off every day? I know you guys who aren't bird newbies like me must laugh at that, but to pretend it doesn't cross your mind when you buy your first bird that you're responsible for on your own is nonsense. It's only human to ask those questions.

Don't worry about asking questions that are on your mind. No one is going to laugh at someone asking because they sincerely want to learn .

The direct amount of time spent with your bird doesn't exactly correlate with biting or no biting. Birds bite for many different reasons. For example, if you have 10+ hours per day to spend with him, it doesn't mean he will be less likely to bite than if you spend the 3-4 hours like you said.

 

[Kiwibird]

That's really helpful! especially what you said about how parrots age and bond with you, how there's a big difference between the formative years and the later ones. I know my bird would be with me for three decades if I took care of him, or more, so putting in effort to make him bond with me, to me, feels worth it. I understand the long-term picture.

And that is absolutely right. When you put in the effort, you reap the rewards. A well bonded bird rarely bites, and it's usually a warning, not an "I'm going to hurt you as bad as I can" attack. Even when they hit puberty, it's not THAT bad when the bird is a loved, bonded bird and the owner is expecting/prepared for it. Puberty just takes many people by surprise who had no idea it was coming, they have no idea whats happening and handle it in all the wrong ways.

Also, I'm not afraid of biting period, but never having taken care of a bird leaves me questions like, even if I spend three or four hours a day with a bird, will this guy still tear my hand off every day? I know you guys who aren't bird newbies like me must laugh at that, but to pretend it doesn't cross your mind when you buy your first bird that you're responsible for on your own is nonsense. It's only human to ask those questions.

And I know there are birds that are just plain old difficult. I'm not going to pretend they don't exist. I'm just not going to worry about that, though. That's not worth worrying about.

I understand your fears, and it's perfectly normal to be a little wary of those beaks when you've not dealt with one before. I grew up with parrots and had been bitten on numerous occasions before Kiwi came home, but I can see where the thought of getting bit might be terrifying to someone who's never had much contact with parrots before.

You are looking at getting a baby though right? A hand-fed one who's been raised by a responsible and reputable breeder right? The stories you hear about birds who are REALLY bad biters are NOT freshly-weaned, hand reared babies who are raised in an attentive, loving home. They are older rescues who have been traumatized severely or perhaps parent raised babies (or a very long time ago) wild caughts. Hand reared babies from good breeders might bite to test boundaries and will go through puberty someday, but they are not going to become BAD biters, ever, if you take good care of them. I know that I will occasionally get chomped, but I never worry about my boy going back to how he was when we newly adopted him because I know he is loved now and trusts humans.

And your looking at a pionus too, which are like mini-amazons (not as big of a beak=not as big of a bite, though I'm sure it may feel like it the first time he or she gets you really good).

ALSO - Is Kiwi really wild-caught? How old was she and where from? That's fascinating. Does she have problems directly related to her being wild-caught, or has she worked out fine?

Kiwi is my bird. We rescued him and don't know his full history, but he is not old enough to be a wild caught based on what history we do know. He was likely born in captivity, but parent raised (parent birds took care of him instead of a human) as opposed to hand fed (human takes the baby bird from the parents at some point and finished weaning it so it does not grow up fearful of humans).

My mom has 2 older amazons that I grew up with. Her female DYH Lucy is a wild caught. She is a very sweet bird (my mom even used to leave her on my crib when I was a baby, she's that trustworthy) and has been a wonderful companion all these years. She is a very maternal and protective bird though, some of that is her being wild and some is her being a female. You asked about being territorial, and out of the amazons I've dealt with extensively, she is by far the most territorial (and the most difficult to back down when she's angry). While males can be more quick to anger, females have a maternal instinct a lot of people don't consider and can be much more stubborn once pissed. The good news though, unless you adopt an older bird, you will not be dealing with any wild caughts. Importation of them was banned a long time ago. And as I said, don't worry about gender when choosing a bird. They aren't THAT different and it's really one half dozen to the other about their typical gender-traits on which one is easier to deal with.

 

[Birdman666]

I've made two trips to the ER in 20+ years of working with parrots... (four stitches in my right index finger, and another four in my left thumb. Both bites went all the way to the bone, like a hot knife through butter...)

One was a Severe macaw with a serious attitude problem. Super aggressive bird. I was rehabbing this one, and someone distracted me. I broke eye contact, and became a "target of opportunity." Oh yes, he was just waiting for me to give him a chance to do that... He was a seriously angry bird. (My mistake.)

The other was a Shamrock, who had spent 32 years in Solitary, and just couldn't stand to be left alone anymore. (He just grabbed my finger, not wanting me to walk away. Only he didn't know his own strength yet.) He was very sweet, but 32 years of neglect, and no training... (Again, my mistake. He wasn't bite pressure trained yet, and he was a bit of a "head case" bird. I exposed myself to that.)

I was the guy down at the rescue who rehabbed "the biters." Some of the birds I was working with COULD NOT BE HANDLED except wrapped up in a towel when I started working with them. So, consider that. I was working with the "EVIL" birds (that's where the 666 comes from, inside joke.)

Most of the time, you get a flesh wound, or a pin prick if it's a little bird. Hurts like hell. Doesn't do any lasting damage.

Amazons, large macaws, and large toos certainly can, and if not tame, will if they don't know you, and you're not careful. An Eckie or a CAG has a beak like a scissors.

BUT they generally don't.

And you CAN teach them to pinch instead of bite, so that you really don't have to worry about it. Which, really, is the intelligent solution here...

The more attitudinous birds will still occasionally give you a pin prick here and there. It's normal. It happens. They're still pet quality.

 

[Birdman666]

I seriously doubt a pionus would use enough bite pressure on a person to require a trip to the ER, but they could easily cut a finger. (They go for the thumb almost every time. Remember that! Be aware of where you thumb is in relation to the bird when you step him up, ALWAYS TUCK THAT THUMB IN!)

 

[Mariar]

Sissy is into biting thumbs now..oh and pinching for attention..she does iit when I'm reading or like now on the computer.my back is to her and omg why isn't mommy paying attention to me attitude starts. It's official she doesn't like the boyfriend and he gets bit hard when he tries to do certain things..nothing new..doolie bit a lot.

 

[Birdman666]

Amazons and pionus' have a lot in common, and going for thumbs is one of them.

 

[Birdman666]

Sally actually does a funny one when she she's uncomfortable with someone or something. She goes down to the crook of my elbow and sticks her head under my arm like an ostrich...

And if I linger too long around something that makes her uncomfortable, she'll pinch me in the ribs from time to time, to remind me that it's time to go.

 

[RavensGryf]

I seriously doubt a pionus would use enough bite pressure on a person to require a trip to the ER, but they could easily cut a finger. (They go for the thumb almost every time. Remember that! Be aware of where you thumb is in relation to the bird when you step him up, ALWAYS TUCK THAT THUMB IN!)

I really don't know, that is just what I've heard from my Pionus group. I imagine when they bite full force in hormonal display it's about like a small Amazon like a White Fronted, or Cuban, or around that size. Raven is practicing and not fully mature, but maybe one day I'll find out and I'll let you know LOL.

 

[Birdman666]

Well a friend of mine had a pionus that bit pretty good, and the worst I ever got was one of those triangle shaped cuts on my thumb...

No ER required. Just soap and water. Put pressure on it with a paper towel until the bleeding stops. (Because manly men don't wear band aids!)

 

[ToMang07]

Well a friend of mine had a pionus that bit pretty good, and the worst I ever got was one of those triangle shaped cuts on my thumb...

No ER required. Just soap and water. Put pressure on it with a paper towel until the bleeding stops. (Because manly men don't wear band aids!)

Superglue and/or duct tape works better, anyway. :54:

 

[Kiwibird]

Well a friend of mine had a pionus that bit pretty good, and the worst I ever got was one of those triangle shaped cuts on my thumb...

No ER required. Just soap and water. Put pressure on it with a paper towel until the bleeding stops. (Because manly men don't wear band aids!)

Fastest way to heal a minor (cleaned) wound in a healthy person is to let it be exposed to air. The scab keeps it clean and bacteria out.

 

[Birdman666]

Then the macaw pics the scab off and you start all over again.

 

[Maxo]

Then the macaw pics the scab off and you start all over again.

LOL. That's funny.

 

[Newbsi]

Then the macaw pics the scab off and you start all over again.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[Sterling1113]

You've got some great advice from the folk here already, so I'll just share my experience with bites.

I've only been bitten twice in the last year with my pionus. She is a girl (even though I say "he".. didnt find out till February lol) so I don't have any issues with handling. I scratch/cuddle/etc her and she lets me pick up her wings to look at her feathers.

But when she did bite, she had no intentions of letting me off with a "pinch" warning. But she hasn't broken skin yet. One was my finger, the other was my neck (I blame my husband. She doesn't like when he has his hair in a ponytail, and he had his hair up and tried to pick her up. She said no, missed his hand, and got me.) Left a pretty bruise but I wasn't dripping blood like I'd expected. Just feels like you slammed your finger in the door. Lol