Conure's aggression worse every day. Desperate for help.

[Birdman666]

Lastly, I personally know of birds who have stressed so much over being forcibly restrained they ended up seizing or DEAD.

Yep.

Nothing like taking an otherwise healthy bird to the vet, having him handled roughly, and having the bird drop dead from panic.

 

[getwozzy]

. Some want to use "Dr Spock" methods like the birds are human children I guess.

You DO know that most parrots have the intelligence levels of human toddlers, right??? They KNOW what's going on --they're not dumb animals just stuck in a flock routine....

I hope your stay on this forum will help you learn other methods out there that you're unaware of so that your birds can live long and prosper.

 

[Birdman666]

Two fingers holding the top of the beak are enough to control it.

One finger is enough to just push the beak away and prevent him from latching on, with a stern "no biting" command is usually enough.

 

[Notdumasilook]

No these birds are not in the wild but they are wild creatures with millions of years of hardwired behaviors built in to them.. unlike human children. I NEVER said anything about "grabbing" a bird by the neck... but that I immobilized him briefly.. the finger and thumb around the neck is NOT the immobilizing part.. it just stops the bite response.(and gets his/her attention) How is that sooooooooooo much more unacceptable than "getting the towel"??. I also have tamed wild caught birds but DiD not need to use that lil method. Gaining the trust with wild caught birds usually involved me bleeding..sometimes a lot... and no "immobilizing" taking place at that time. Only time I ever go that route is with a tame bird that has already accepted me as part of the flock/family AND their instincts kick in (not fear) and they cross the line wanting to be "boss bird" and try and inflict damage. Only at that point would a bird of mine get a lil brief lesson in who is the alpha bird in my house and learns what NO means. I have yet to own a bird that became scared of my hands or lose trust in me. In fact I have to pry them off of me with a crowbar sometimes.)~ (not pry their beaks off tho). I remain the alpha bird and we all get along just fine. Now if you seriously think Im that out of touch and that my relating this lil tidbit of info is really dangerous and it might start a rash of folks ringing their birds necks feel free to delete any of my post. It does not change the fact that birds respond better if you approach training using the birds instinctive social behaviors to our advantage... reducing the stress out of all involved.

 

[Birdman666]

Whoa... slow down. This isn't a personal attack.

Restraint stuff is sometimes necessary, it's just usually a last resort in my mind.

There's room for disagreement here.

One size does not fit all.

Everyone contributes their own perspective.

 

[Notdumasilook]

. Some want to use "Dr Spock" methods like the birds are human children I guess.

You DO know that most parrots have the intelligence levels of human toddlers, right??? They KNOW what's going on --they're not dumb animals just stuck in a flock routiine

Hmm..yeah 30 plus years I reckon I do. I also consider the instincts that come with it. My dear friend Judy was raising/training birds before I was born. What worked for her for years also worked for me (and the birds).. so no.. I do not plan on giving birdie time outs, putting their lil beaks in a corner, or taking away their car keys anytime soon. But even as smart as they are they are still "stuck" in the flock routine even if its a flock of 2. There is a flock of 4 at my home and an evolving pecking order that comes with the new addition. Not sure if my wife is 3 or 4 yet... its still being decided (by the birds, not me)

 

[JerseyWendy]

Maybe I am doing it all wrong but it works. My lil SC Booger is not a biter but still those instinctive bites over food/toys etc have happened. After learning this lil birds perks I shortly resorted to just immobilizing him in my hand with thumb and forefinger around his neck.. wagged a finger in his face with a firm but not loud 'no". Put him right back on my shoulder and I usually get a "kiss" apology. His biting has not been near what you are dealing with but he still has his moments.

...... I remain the alpha bird and we all get along just fine. ......

There is no such thing as an "Alpha" in a flock. Common misconception, I'm afraid.

http://flock-talk.tumblr.com/post/108990830803/dominance-in-parrots
http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_about_parrots/reference_library/behaviour_and_environmental_enrichment/The%20Struggle%20for%20Dominance.pdf
http://www.iaate.org/companion-parrots/51-content/resource-center/219-addressing-aggressive-behavior.html

We appreciate the diversity of opinions on this forum, however, when we see posts that COULD prove dangerous, we MUST point them out in an attempt to hopefully prevent 'accidents'.

 

[GFGC]

There are so many contradictory approaches to dealing with bird problems among enthusiasts and even in those two articles. One recommends tower wrapping, another refers to it in cruel terms. Some people advocate using a spray bottle to deter behavior, others say it's mean, etc. etc. Birdman666 is well respected here and everyone advocates taking his advice (which I am ), and yet one of those two articles says that birds have a very bad concept of cause and effect (which also seems to make no sense in an article that also advocates clicker conditioning, which seems to me to be a very direct example of cause and effect).

It almost makes me feel like there aren't any right or wrong answers across the board when it comes to behavior management, which makes the whole ordeal all the more confusing. "Do what works for you" feels like what I am getting out of all this. People have been keeping parrots for centuries. How can we still be so clueless?

 

[Birdman666]

Short answer: Because we're people! Clueless is a fundamental part of the human experience!

 

[Notdumasilook]

Whoa... slow down. This isn't a personal attack.

Restraint stuff is sometimes necessary, it's just usually a last resort in my mind.

There's room for disagreement here.

One size does not fit all.

Everyone contributes their own perspective.

And that's when I go to that method. Its really rare once they know Im the alpha bird. And yeah its starting to get personal. I never mistreat my critters and do my level best to work with them on their level. The lil Sun conure is a new addition to the flock and trying to figure out his place in it. On the other side of the coin I never clip my birds.. so they don't get restrained for that unpleasant experience. Restraint is rare in my flock and when I have gone that route its very brief... then the bird goes right back on my shoulder or where ever he/she was and we pick up where we left off. My birds fly to me, not away from me.. so maybe Im doing something right?? Oh and there are those rare times I might get nailed.. because I made a mistake dealng with a bird. Those times Im at fault an I apologize to them. Learning is a 2 way street sometimes.

 

[Notdumasilook]

Maybe I am doing it all wrong but it works. My lil SC Booger is not a biter but still those instinctive bites over food/toys etc have happened. After learning this lil birds perks I shortly resorted to just immobilizing him in my hand with thumb and forefinger around his neck.. wagged a finger in his face with a firm but not loud 'no". Put him right back on my shoulder and I usually get a "kiss" apology. His biting has not been near what you are dealing with but he still has his moments.

EXACTLY!! Immobilizing him in my hand (holding him with his wings folded) with my thumb and forefinger around his neck (keepin him from biting).

...... I remain the alpha bird and we all get along just fine. ......

There is no such thing as an "Alpha" in a flock. Common misconception, I'm afraid.

Well lets put it this way.. if its more easily understood. Im at the top of the pecking order in my home..

http://flock-talk.tumblr.com/post/108990830803/dominance-in-parrots
http://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_about_parrots/reference_library/behaviour_and_environmental_enrichment/The%20Struggle%20for%20Dominance.pdf
http://www.iaate.org/companion-parrots/51-content/resource-center/219-addressing-aggressive-behavior.html

Good point. Perhaps there are some out there that are stupid enough to read in to that "strangle" even tho it does not say that. I promise to be wayyyy more precise if allowed to stay.

 

[Birdman666]

People have been keeping parrots for centuries. How can we still be so clueless?

For example: We've been keeping them for centuries, but it's only been in the last 10-20 years or so that we've begun to really understand their nutritional or psychological needs...

That's why forums like this are needed.

 

[JerseyWendy]

....
Good point. Perhaps there are some out there that are stupid enough to read in to that "strangle" even tho it does not say that. I promise to be wayyyy more precise if allowed to stay.

Oh boy!

I don't think anyone would purposely strangle their bird - PERIOD (well...any 'good' human that is). I'm sure you were a newbie once, a long time ago. Nobody insinuated you were strangling your bird either. It was simply pointed out that NO newbie should ever attempt that method because of the potential threat the bird could get injured, or worse. Additionally it was pointed out that there are other, and proven methods out there without ever having to resort to becoming 'physical'.

Why would you not be allowed to say? I'm going to say it again: Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Birdman666]

Birdman666 is well respected here and everyone advocates taking his advice (which I am

Sadly, it's about the only place I'm well respected anymore, and about the only time anyone listens to my advice is if there is a bird involved...

I really do need to get out more!

 

[Anansi]

Slow your roll there, Notdumasilook. No one is saying your birds are being abused or anything like that. Chances are you do lots of things right by them and you obviously love them deeply.

Way I see it, there are two things going on here. On one level, I think you and I can both agree that there is a correct and incorrect way to perform the method of restraint to which you are referring, yes? And that if someone were to attempt this method and did so incorrectly, they could potentially damage the bird whose behavior they are seeking to correct? Well, as Wendy and Julie pointed out earlier, it is important that people new to bird-keeping understand that this is not some maneuver that you just up and start doing with your birds without being shown exactly how. Doing otherwise would be potentially dangerous, and it's important that people understand this. Which makes us as mods responsible for getting the word out. No one is saying that your post is going to spur a rash of neck grabbing incidents across the globe or anything. But if even one incident could occur, wouldn't it be worth it to make sure people understood that there is a particular way to do it?

On another level, there is a debate as to when (or even if) such a manner of restraint is appropriate and should come into play. You mentioned before that you thought your method of restraint was potentially less invasive than toweling, and I agree with you on that score. But toweling, like the neck restraint method, I'd only use as a last resort. It's not that the tactic is inhumane or anything. And I'm sure you love the living heck out of your birds. You're just quicker on that particular trigger than I would be is all.

Conversely, you said you would only use it on birds that were bonded to you and not on those who needed to be rehabbed. I'm actually the complete opposite. If a bird was completely out of control and I absolutely needed to move him somewhere or take control of him for whatever reason, be it medication or a visit to the vet or whatever, that's the bird I'd use it on. Just different perspectives is all.

And as for you being "allowed" to stay, I'm actually glad you said that. There seems to be an impression in the minds of a few here and there that disparate views can get people banned. Not even remotely true. As long as you are respectful in your stated views, such action would never be taken.

What gets someone banned? Aggressively insulting behavior, whether on the open forum or via pm. Being a "troll". Repeatedly and flagrantly disregarding the rules of this site, even after warnings are given.

But differing opinions? No way! Forums thrive on that stuff!

 

[Terry57]

Beautifully stated, Stephen.

 

[Birdman666]

Oh boy!

I don't think anyone would purposely strangle their bird - PERIOD (well...any 'good' human that is).

I dunno. There were a couple of problem birds I've worked with, where that was really, really tempting...

"My hand just slipped, and somehow got wrapped around the bird's throat, and then he started to fall, so I squeezed REAL TIGHT, and I just don't know what happened...

Nevermind!

Just trying to interject some humor.

Everyone seems a bit tense today.

 

[Flboy]

Oh boy!

I don't think anyone would purposely strangle their bird - PERIOD (well...any 'good' human that is).

I dunno. There were a couple of problem birds I've worked with, where that was really, really tempting...

"My hand just slipped, and somehow got wrapped around the bird's throat, and then he started to fall, so I squeezed REAL TIGHT, and I just don't know what happened...

Nevermind!

Just trying to interject some humor.

Everyone seems a bit tense today.

Now you sound like me!

 

[MyFlock]

I had a biting and aggressive GCC but he seemed to snap out of it after I had to towel him for a series of 3 medication rounds. I'm sure that doesn't help but I thought I'd throw that out there!

 

[Notdumasilook]

....
Good point. Perhaps there are some out there that are stupid enough to read in to that "strangle" even tho it does not say that. I promise to be wayyyy more precise if allowed to stay.

Oh boy!

I don't think anyone would purposely strangle their bird - PERIOD (well...any 'good' human that is). I'm sure you were a newbie once, a long time ago. Nobody insinuated you were strangling your bird either. It was simply pointed out that NO newbie should ever attempt that method because of the potential threat the bird could get injured, or worse. Additionally it was pointed out that there are other, and proven methods out there without ever having to resort to becoming 'physical'.

Why would you not be allowed to say? I'm going to say it again: Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Any newbie needs to learn the "how to" in short order. It comes with the territory .. Even you have had to do it... correct??

I was a newbie once.. and that week I was given 10 prefilled syringes of anti-biotic to inject a bird with. Folks don't seem to have an issue with getting physical with the good old "wing cliipping' which is far more stressful than the
30 seconds of (safe) restraint I used on a face eating bird. As far as "proven" methods.. I don't think there are any. If there were the original poster could have just looked that up real quick somewhere.. problem solved.