Did my cockatiel have a seizure?

[Jose42]

Coco has gotten even worse. The Doxy shot hardly has any affect; she keeps her beak open to breathe. She keeps her feathers fluffed and I've turned on the heater to help her keep warm. She's very tired; she's doing nothing but sleeping. I saw her eat a bit this morning. I gave her the Baytril. When she sleeps her beak isn't in her feathers. Instead, she bobs and shakes her head with eyes closed most of the time. Her tail bobs as well and it's pointed down. I try to not bother her, but when I check up on her I can't tell if she's trying to greet me and can't or if she is agitated that I'm there. I just hope she knows how much I love her. Those lab results aren't getting here soon enough.

 

[Laurasea]

Sorry to hear that. Prolonged antibiotics can lead to yeast or fungal overgrowth...you can give her some live culture yogurt no artificial sweeteners kind, about half a teaspoon, it's the same as the probiotics powder the sell at let stores... I hope she can recover... I'm in your corner

 

[Jose42]

Sorry to hear that. Prolonged antibiotics can lead to yeast or fungal overgrowth...you can give her some live culture yogurt no artificial sweeteners kind, about half a teaspoon, it's the same as the probiotics powder the sell at let stores... I hope she can recover... I'm in your corner

I can't thank you enough for all your help. Today, for about 3 hours I did see her eat quite a bit. She doesn't look any better, but I was so happy to finally hear her before I covered the cage. She always says good night. She doesn't look any better. All I can do is care for her and hope she fights to stay with me. I hope she comes out on top.

 

[EllenD]

Oh I'm so sorry, this is exactly why these damn Vets cannot just "guess" what is wrong with them and prescribe medications that aren't correct; Honestly the Baytril is them doing exactly the same thing, but I understand they are waiting for the culture results...I'm afraid she may have had Aspergilliosis this entire time, or a very bad Upper Respiratory Infection that is Fungal and not Bacterial, meaning that all of the antibiotics this Vet has given her has only made the fungal infection so much worse, to the point that it's all throughout her Respiratory system, lungs, Crop, GI Tract, etc.

****Do NOT put anything in her Drinking Water!!!!!!! The Qwiko powdered Probiotics are very good, but you should only sprinkle it on her food once a day, that's it. Please, if you've put any in her drinking water dump it out now, disinfect her drinking bowl with very hot water, and then give her fresh water, and never put any Probiotics, any medications, any supplements/vitamins, nothing ever in her drinking water! It contaminates her drinking water and starts fungal/bacterial growth in the water dish immediately, and she certainly cannot have that right now...So only on her food once a day...

****I think you need to speak to this Vet about Nebulizer treatments with the proper medication(s) based on the culture results... When an Upper Respiratory Infection gets this bad, or if it's something like Aspergilliosis or Psittacosis to the point that it's this bad, or a Fungi/Yeast, then the injections nor the oral meds are going to work quickly enough and she may die...Nebulizing the medication directly into her lungs and her respiratory tissue is the absolute best way to treat this at this point, and I'd almost insist upon it at this point. You can either build your own Nebulizer out of a large, plastic tub and a vaporizer, like the kind they sell for humans at drug stores and stores like Walmart, or you can usually just rent a proper Nebulizer directly from either the Vet or from a Home-Healthcare supply store...I made one using a plastic tub and a Vicks brand human Vaporizer that I bought at Walmart for $30. I had to do this for my Quaker a year ago, and it worked almost immediately. You simply dilute the antibiotic or anti-fungal medication, or both, in distilled water in the correct dilution ratio, which the Vet can give you, put it in the Vaporizer, put the Vaporizer inside of the plastic tub, put the bird inside of the tub, put the lid on, and let the bird breath the medication directly into their lungs and respiratory tissue for 15-20 minutes per treatment, once or twice a day...They typically show extreme improvement in the breathing symptoms after 1-2 treatments, and you continue them for at least a week or two. Nebulizer treatments are what most-all Certified Avian Vets are prescribing immediately now for birds with either a severe Upper Respiratory Infection, Aspergilliosis, Bacterial or Fungal Pneumonia, etc. They don't even mess around with oral meds or injections anymore. Treating a Respiratory or lung infection with oral meds is very ineffective, and injections aren't a whole lot better, as the medication needs to get directly into the respiratory and lung tissue...So I would be making this suggestion to this Vet ASAP, And if they tell you that Nebulization is not a good idea, I'd insist upon it, or insist that they have a phone-consult with a Certified Avian Vet immediately and ask their opinion, because I guarantee that they'll recommend Nebulization...

 

[Jose42]

Oh I'm so sorry, this is exactly why these damn Vets cannot just "guess" what is wrong with them and prescribe medications that aren't correct; Honestly the Baytril is them doing exactly the same thing, but I understand they are waiting for the culture results...I'm afraid she may have had Aspergilliosis this entire time, or a very bad Upper Respiratory Infection that is Fungal and not Bacterial, meaning that all of the antibiotics this Vet has given her has only made the fungal infection so much worse, to the point that it's all throughout her Respiratory system, lungs, Crop, GI Tract, etc.

****Do NOT put anything in her Drinking Water!!!!!!! The Qwiko powdered Probiotics are very good, but you should only sprinkle it on her food once a day, that's it. Please, if you've put any in her drinking water dump it out now, disinfect her drinking bowl with very hot water, and then give her fresh water, and never put any Probiotics, any medications, any supplements/vitamins, nothing ever in her drinking water! It contaminates her drinking water and starts fungal/bacterial growth in the water dish immediately, and she certainly cannot have that right now...So only on her food once a day...

****I think you need to speak to this Vet about Nebulizer treatments with the proper medication(s) based on the culture results... When an Upper Respiratory Infection gets this bad, or if it's something like Aspergilliosis or Psittacosis to the point that it's this bad, or a Fungi/Yeast, then the injections nor the oral meds are going to work quickly enough and she may die...Nebulizing the medication directly into her lungs and her respiratory tissue is the absolute best way to treat this at this point, and I'd almost insist upon it at this point. You can either build your own Nebulizer out of a large, plastic tub and a vaporizer, like the kind they sell for humans at drug stores and stores like Walmart, or you can usually just rent a proper Nebulizer directly from either the Vet or from a Home-Healthcare supply store...I made one using a plastic tub and a Vicks brand human Vaporizer that I bought at Walmart for $30. I had to do this for my Quaker a year ago, and it worked almost immediately. You simply dilute the antibiotic or anti-fungal medication, or both, in distilled water in the correct dilution ratio, which the Vet can give you, put it in the Vaporizer, put the Vaporizer inside of the plastic tub, put the bird inside of the tub, put the lid on, and let the bird breath the medication directly into their lungs and respiratory tissue for 15-20 minutes per treatment, once or twice a day...They typically show extreme improvement in the breathing symptoms after 1-2 treatments, and you continue them for at least a week or two. Nebulizer treatments are what most-all Certified Avian Vets are prescribing immediately now for birds with either a severe Upper Respiratory Infection, Aspergilliosis, Bacterial or Fungal Pneumonia, etc. They don't even mess around with oral meds or injections anymore. Treating a Respiratory or lung infection with oral meds is very ineffective, and injections aren't a whole lot better, as the medication needs to get directly into the respiratory and lung tissue...So I would be making this suggestion to this Vet ASAP, And if they tell you that Nebulization is not a good idea, I'd insist upon it, or insist that they have a phone-consult with a Certified Avian Vet immediately and ask their opinion, because I guarantee that they'll recommend Nebulization...

Thanks, again. I just dumped out the water that had the Probiotics. And I will insist on the nebulizer treatment. I was told I'd get a call tomorrow or Friday( hopefully tomorrow) and I have one question about infections in birds. About how long can a bird go on when they have an infection like this? I wouldn't imagine long since they're delicate. She hasn't improved. She's sleeping almost all day.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Come on Coco!! You're a fighter!!! Saying tons of prayers for her,and for you Jose!!




Jim

 

[Jose42]

Come on Coco!! You're a fighter!!! Saying tons of prayers for her,and for you Jose!!




Jim

It's much appreciated. I've been praying day and night since yesterday as well.

 

[EllenD]

It's very hard to answer that question Jose, but if she's sleeping all day long then chances are not long...At this point the Nebulizer is almost a must. She's got some type of very nasty URI/lung infection, and obviously Doxycycline is not the correct medication for it. It may be Fungal, it may be a Bacteria that Doxy doesn't treat, it may be something like Aspergilliosis, but they need to get those cultures back and get her on the Nebulizer...I'd also hope at this point that they would probably give her an injection of the proper medication immediately, and then start the Nebulization of the correct med immediately...I'm so sorry this is happening, this could have been prevented weeks ago if the first vet would have simply taken a culture...

Keep him warm, and try to get him to take some fluids by-mouth if at all possible. If he hasn't been eating or drinking at all, they may want to give her some subcutaneous fluids and possibly tube-feed her once..However, I don't know if I would admit her to the hospital or not, as that usually doesn't end well when they are this bad due to the stress of the hospital and being away from you. That's why doing the Nebulizer treatments at home is best...Keep us posted...

 

[Jose42]

It's very hard to answer that question Jose, but if she's sleeping all day long then chances are not long...At this point the Nebulizer is almost a must. She's got some type of very nasty URI/lung infection, and obviously Doxycycline is not the correct medication for it. It may be Fungal, it may be a Bacteria that Doxy doesn't treat, it may be something like Aspergilliosis, but they need to get those cultures back and get her on the Nebulizer...I'd also hope at this point that they would probably give her an injection of the proper medication immediately, and then start the Nebulization of the correct med immediately...I'm so sorry this is happening, this could have been prevented weeks ago if the first vet would have simply taken a culture...

Keep him warm, and try to get him to take some fluids by-mouth if at all possible. If he hasn't been eating or drinking at all, they may want to give her some subcutaneous fluids and possibly tube-feed her once..However, I don't know if I would admit her to the hospital or not, as that usually doesn't end well when they are this bad due to the stress of the hospital and being away from you. That's why doing the Nebulizer treatments at home is best...Keep us posted...

Thank you. She still eats, but I don't know if it's enough. I saw her eat 3 times yesterday. I haven't seen her drink though. I did call to ask about the nebulizer treatment. I had to leave a message. Thank you for pointing out that hospitalization isn't a good option. I was considering it until now. However, wouldn't she be stressed at home by me? I mean I've tried taming her, but haven't been able to. The closest I've gotten to taming her is feeding her millet without her getting scared. As she is right now, she takes about a 5 minute break before she eats when she climbs onto the dish. However, she still says good night when I cover the cage. But she sleeps all day.

 

[EllenD]

It's a judgement call...Honestly, if she were to be admitted to an animal hospital, they would simply keep her in a heated-incubator/cage, feed her normally if she's still eating on her own (it's not uncommon for you to not see her drink water, they don't drink much to begin with, and it's easy to miss, if she's eating then she's also most-likely drinking too), they'd give her a Nebulizer treatment each day if they are willing to do it, and that's it...If she's home with you she's in her own cage (her "safe-space"), she's not around a bunch of people she doesn't know, there aren't a bunch of other animals around making noises and scaring her, etc. So even though she's not exactly tame, being in a totally new and weird, scary environment with people she's never seen before, and being out of her own cage and in a new one is very stressful to any bird, especially one who is already sick...And there is no reason that you can't do the Nebulizer treatments at home, and take her in for an injection if needed...

 

[Jose42]

It's a judgement call...Honestly, if she were to be admitted to an animal hospital, they would simply keep her in a heated-incubator/cage, feed her normally if she's still eating on her own (it's not uncommon for you to not see her drink water, they don't drink much to begin with, and it's easy to miss, if she's eating then she's also most-likely drinking too), they'd give her a Nebulizer treatment each day if they are willing to do it, and that's it...If she's home with you she's in her own cage (her "safe-space"), she's not around a bunch of people she doesn't know, there aren't a bunch of other animals around making noises and scaring her, etc. So even though she's not exactly tame, being in a totally new and weird, scary environment with people she's never seen before, and being out of her own cage and in a new one is very stressful to any bird, especially one who is already sick...And there is no reason that you can't do the Nebulizer treatments at home, and take her in for an injection if needed...

I see. Hopefully, I get the call today to take her in. I'm at work and my mom is watching her. She's still eating and drank a bit. I see a lot of videos where a sick bird is placed in a box or cage with a towel at the bottom. Would it help if I removed the base with the bars and replaced it with a towel? What benefits does it have?

 

[EllenD]

No, keep her in her cage...She's still eating and drinking on her own, she's still able to move around in her cage on her own, and that is her "safe space", it's what she's used to and feels safest and most secure in...

I have no idea why people do that except to say that sometimes those videos are taken when people have just taken or are going to take their birds to the Vet office and they put them in a cardboard box to do so...Or the bird is either injured or so sick that they can no-longer get around their cages or even perch, so they have to be kept on a flat surface instead of perches and grated floors...And then there are the people who yes, keep their birds in cardboard boxes all the time, that's actually where their birds live...Sad but true.

As long as your bird is able to perch and get around her cage properly then she will be best to stay inside it, same as not being admitted to an animal hospital unless it's absolutely necessary because she needs to be in an oxygenated cage or a heated incubator. It's not a myth that birds die from tremendous stress, they really do, but typically that happens when they are already sick or in pain and then exposed to other external stress on top of it...But it does happen. So you want as little stress for her as possible.

As far as the "towel" on the bottom of the cage/box goes, I think when it's in a box they just put it there because they feel they should have some kind of blanket to keep them warm; if it's on the bottom of a cage, again, this is done when a bird can no longer perch and has to sit on the bottom of the cage, or if the bird is having seizures or something that is causing them to fall off of their perches suddenly, so they don't hurt themselves...Again, at this point your bird doesn't need this as long as she is perching with no issues, and is able to get to her food and water bowls on her own without any issues...If she gets to the point that she can no longer get around her cage or perch, then you'll need to move everything down to the bottom for her and set it up nicely for her, but not until..Hopefully it doesn't come to that...

The only thing I would do is to maybe cover 3 sides of her cage with a blanket, leaving the front open, as this will lock-in heat for her to stay warm, and it will also help to keep her feeling relaxed and secure, and help her rest. You don't want to cover the entire cage unless it's bedtime, so always keep the front open so she can see you and what is going on outside of her cage...

 

[Jose42]

No, keep her in her cage...She's still eating and drinking on her own, she's still able to move around in her cage on her own, and that is her "safe space", it's what she's used to and feels safest and most secure in...

I have no idea why people do that except to say that sometimes those videos are taken when people have just taken or are going to take their birds to the Vet office and they put them in a cardboard box to do so...Or the bird is either injured or so sick that they can no-longer get around their cages or even perch, so they have to be kept on a flat surface instead of perches and grated floors...And then there are the people who yes, keep their birds in cardboard boxes all the time, that's actually where their birds live...Sad but true.

As long as your bird is able to perch and get around her cage properly then she will be best to stay inside it, same as not being admitted to an animal hospital unless it's absolutely necessary because she needs to be in an oxygenated cage or a heated incubator. It's not a myth that birds die from tremendous stress, they really do, but typically that happens when they are already sick or in pain and then exposed to other external stress on top of it...But it does happen. So you want as little stress for her as possible.

As far as the "towel" on the bottom of the cage/box goes, I think when it's in a box they just put it there because they feel they should have some kind of blanket to keep them warm; if it's on the bottom of a cage, again, this is done when a bird can no longer perch and has to sit on the bottom of the cage, or if the bird is having seizures or something that is causing them to fall off of their perches suddenly, so they don't hurt themselves...Again, at this point your bird doesn't need this as long as she is perching with no issues, and is able to get to her food and water bowls on her own without any issues...If she gets to the point that she can no longer get around her cage or perch, then you'll need to move everything down to the bottom for her and set it up nicely for her, but not until..Hopefully it doesn't come to that...

The only thing I would do is to maybe cover 3 sides of her cage with a blanket, leaving the front open, as this will lock-in heat for her to stay warm, and it will also help to keep her feeling relaxed and secure, and help her rest. You don't want to cover the entire cage unless it's bedtime, so always keep the front open so she can see you and what is going on outside of her cage...

I've made it a habit to keep three sides of the cage covered. I'm using 3 thin cloths, but since she got sick I added the blanket I use to cover it at bedtime. She seems to appreciate it. She stays close to the covered sides. Of course, I remove what I must during the summer months. I called the vet today and got an answer from the assistant. They got the bloodwork back and that came back clean. So white cell count was fine, organs functionality was fine, etc. What they're waiting on is the sample of mucus that she had somewhere on the roof of her beak. I'll probably get a call tomorrow on that, but I'm more likely to call them. I was told it's possible they'll get it Saturday. But I had those samples taken early on Monday, so I'm fairly confident They'll get it by the time I leave work tomorrow. I asked about the nebulizer treatment and was told that a vaporizer would also work. I could use a saline solution or water. I'm hesitant to try that since it's not the actual medicine that she'll be breathing. What if the water or saline solution make matters worse? Coco had the energy to say good night tonight and she got a wee bit vocal; it's comforting to hear her.

 

[texsize]

As far as the towel I have done this with both my amazons when they were "on there way out"
If your bird is perching and able to move safely (without stumbling/falling) it's best to let it be.

Only when it may injure itself by trying to do more that it can or if it's unable to move around and you need to keep it warm a towel can I think be a comfort.

 

[Jose42]

As far as the towel I have done this with both my amazons when they were "on there way out"
If your bird is perching and able to move safely (without stumbling/falling) it's best to let it be.

Only when it may injure itself by trying to do more that it can or if it's unable to move around and you need to keep it warm a towel can I think be a comfort.

Makes sense. Thank you. And sorry to hear about your birds. May they rest in peace.

 

[EllenD]

I would wait until you get the culture result and see if she needs to take a medication, and what the med they prescribe is, because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a Nebulizer treatment and just a vaporizer/humidifier...The Nebulizer is meant to get her breathing the medication into her lung and respiratory system tissue directly, while a humidifier is meant to simply add humidity to the environment...

As far as whether humidity helps an Upper Respiratory Infection, the answer is a resounding YES, even though it seems counterproductive...Most people automatically think that making the environment more humid would make the URI worse, but it's just the opposite. So they were right about that...However, in your bird's case, she is going to be put on a medication, looks like an anti-fungal most likely, so it's best to just wait until you get the meds and then do the treatments for her, although if you want to you could try a quick "session" where she's breathing-in some vapor/humidity for 10-15 minutes (from sterile saline or distilled water only) and see if that makes her breathing/respiratory symptoms better...If it does then great, if it doesn't then hold-off for the diagnosis and meds...

I've got to say that I'm absolutely shocked that her WBC's were normal based on how sick you are describing her acting...sleeping all day long, respiratory/breathing symptoms, etc. And it's been for a long time...What I worry about with that is that the very long round(s) of Doxycycline that she was on, even though it didn't make her better or improve her symptoms at all, still reduced her WBC's, as her blood was taken directly after she finished the Doxy...If that's the case then the infection she has is localized to her Upper Respiratory System and/or lungs/sinuses/throat, and is not at all systemic, which is very good...I just want to see some improvement in "her"...

Were there any abnormalities that they found in her blood work?
Keep us posted when you get the culture results back, I'm guessing on a Fungal/Yeast infection, but at this point she's a mystery..

 

[Laurasea]

I'm glad she is hanging in there! I hope you get answers!

 

[Jose42]

I would wait until you get the culture result and see if she needs to take a medication, and what the med they prescribe is, because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a Nebulizer treatment and just a vaporizer/humidifier...The Nebulizer is meant to get her breathing the medication into her lung and respiratory system tissue directly, while a humidifier is meant to simply add humidity to the environment...

As far as whether humidity helps an Upper Respiratory Infection, the answer is a resounding YES, even though it seems counterproductive...Most people automatically think that making the environment more humid would make the URI worse, but it's just the opposite. So they were right about that...However, in your bird's case, she is going to be put on a medication, looks like an anti-fungal most likely, so it's best to just wait until you get the meds and then do the treatments for her, although if you want to you could try a quick "session" where she's breathing-in some vapor/humidity for 10-15 minutes (from sterile saline or distilled water only) and see if that makes her breathing/respiratory symptoms better...If it does then great, if it doesn't then hold-off for the diagnosis and meds...

I've got to say that I'm absolutely shocked that her WBC's were normal based on how sick you are describing her acting...sleeping all day long, respiratory/breathing symptoms, etc. And it's been for a long time...What I worry about with that is that the very long round(s) of Doxycycline that she was on, even though it didn't make her better or improve her symptoms at all, still reduced her WBC's, as her blood was taken directly after she finished the Doxy...If that's the case then the infection she has is localized to her Upper Respiratory System and/or lungs/sinuses/throat, and is not at all systemic, which is very good...I just want to see some improvement in "her"...

Were there any abnormalities that they found in her blood work?
Keep us posted when you get the culture results back, I'm guessing on a Fungal/Yeast infection, but at this point she's a mystery..

I got confused. What do you mean her WBC count is abnormal? I understand the meds would lower that. I guess I'm a little confused on the chronology of the explanation. Also, I didn't even think to ask about abnormalities and I wasn't even told of any. I suppose it's a silver lining that the problem is localized. Right now, my mom is watching her and she says that she has eaten twice. I appreciate all the help and I'm certain Coco does as well.

 

[Jose42]

I'm glad she is hanging in there! I hope you get answers!

Thank you. She's a fighter. She's not giving in and neither am I.

 

[dhraiden]

Should you have cause to go through this process again (and I hope not, for all the best possible reasons), see if you can request to have the results faxed or e-mailed to you (or pick them up if possible). Then you can read through them and start to learn about what the numbers mean and their context. It's always good policy to be exhaustive in your questioning - you are paying for professionals' time so it does you (nor Coco) no disservice to be bothersome with even seemingly perfunctory questions. Never hesitate to simply ask, "What does this mean?" when you're in front of someone who can give a clear and expert answer.


All that said, have you yet been able to obtain a nebulizer? It something that a cursory search suggests is available at chain-drugstores like Walgreens.