Dog training vs. Parrot training

[ivysaur]

So I'm realizing my problem is that all my animal training experience is with dogs and I find myself treating my bird like one. Can someone help clear up differences?

For instance, when a dog is being all "i don't feel like taking a bath," you have to just push them in the tub, or else they'll have you wrapped around their little paw-finger. I'm not talking about cruel forcing, i mean when they're just being "spooty" which is a word my family made up for a pet knowing exactly what they should be doing but just not doing it to be a poop!

Is it wrong to be commanding toward a bird? Like if she needs to step up, but grumbles at me and doesn't, am I supposed to leave her alone because she's an intelligent creature, or be persistent because she needs to listen to me? Hmm.

 

[WharfRat]

Wow, good question. Now that I think about it, this is the first time I've been without a dog in about 10+ years. (We lost our dog to illness almost 2 years ago) All I've ever had is German Shepherds and our last was an import from East Germany. I honestly think a dog does learn slightly quicker, I DEFINITELY think a dog is more intuitive than a parrot. The biggest difference is their life span obviously, a parrot also goes thru a "puberty" stage if you will. I also think "most" parrots tend to focus on an individual as opposed to a "family". This is the best scenario I can give for my statements: When I bought our last dog (Shadow) I was mainly getting her as a "protection" dog, Con had just been born and my job changed into a rotating shift position which included 12 hour days AND nights which were all variable (could be 5 days or nights in a row or as little as 2 :52 On top of that we had to relocate & were living in a new town. Shadow immediately became a close member to the whole family, I think my oldest boy was around 10 at the time. It soon became apparent that Shadow did not like ANYONE that was not family. If someone visited (which was rare, new town, crazy work schedule) Shadow had to be put up. Ok, NOW I'm getting to my point....When Conner would be given a bath we had one of those ring things with suction cups to make him sit up in the tub (with one of us watching of course) I think Con was around 6 mos. old. That dog having been taught NOTHING but the basic, sit, stay, lie down did the most amazing thing in the world..... she would get INTO the tub with Conner, sit down & just watch him the entire time he was in there! :11: There are some things you just can't explain about that dog and that was the first major one (of many). I just don't see a parrot having that kind of "mindset" or "instinct"

Sorry I got long winded, haven't talked about her in a long time, she is still SORELY missed by all of us (including Con). I'll share some other things about her in the appropriate forum.

 

[Mare Miller]

WharfRat, I can tell you truly loved your dog and he sounds like he was amazing. My Amigo has this quality about him and I don't think it's usual, there's just something special going on.

In my opinion, most birds will not train like a dog. Very different psychologically. A bird is not as easily convinced. Mine aren't, anyway!

 

[Pookamama]

Wharfrat, what a beautiful and loyal dog! My uncle had a black german shepherd named Beco that was loyal and smart as well.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that dogs are mammals and birds are avian, and birds have that whole mate for life thing going on which just doesn't sound like an issue for dogs.

 

[luvmytooo]

Your right Mare Miller. Birds are thinkers , not to say dogs aren't , BUT , dogs do thi gs to please themselves. Example : Owner trains dog come when called.
Come command is given , dog comes , reward is either verbal or a treat or a physical reward like petting . The dog is performing FOR the reward , FOR itself, not because it makes you happy and he likes to make you happy.
Birds on the other hand will tell you to shove it if they aren't in the mood and you just need to go find something else to do with your training time .

One method I like alot is operant conditioning training. Many semi domesticated or wild animals have been trained with this method. But , in the end , it's almost the same , command , reward , but with many animals that aren't quite domesticated ,your progress depends on their willingness to have anything to do with you ( us )

 

[WharfRat]

Birds on the other hand will tell you to shove it if they aren't in the mood and you just need to go find something else to do with your training time .

ROFLMAO!!!!!! Man did you nail that one on the head!!!!

You oughta make that your sig LOL!!!!

 

[Mare Miller]

luvmytooo, isn't that the truth?! If a bird doesn't like you, you're up #### creek!

 

[DebsFlock]

I haven't had a dog since I was in high school, but I've worked with horses quite a bit, and I have a friend that does agility and flyball with her dogs. So that's my resumé.

I think horses, dogs and birds are all VERY different. And parrots are even more unique because they aren't actually domesticated, they are still essentially wild creatures even when raised by hand, they have not been selectively bred to be easier to work with yet.

To some extent all creatures respond to the basic tools of behavior modification, but the popular opinion right now, as far as I can tell, is that with parrots you are best focusing as much as possible on positive reinforcement. My limited experience is consistent with this. I have done far, far better when I've tried to focus on encouraging behavior I want than on discouraging behavior I don't want, and on finding a way to make my bird want to do what I want than on domination or forcing the issue.

There are times you HAVE to be a bit forceful, but I think trying to apply concepts like being the alpha or the boss or more dominant don't seem to work with birds. Be firm and persistent, yes, but not "put them in their place". They aren't rigidly hierarchical, and if you try to dominate them, they seem to be inclined to just take their toys and go home rather than to respond in a positive way.

I've done better with my guys by letting them say "no" if they don't want to come out, for example. If they start NEVER wanting to come out, then I'll have to find a reason to make it desirable to want to be out. In early training I think ample reward to make it worth while to do what you ask is probably the best policy. That said, Scotty knows well and truly what "step up" means. If he gives me that blank look and echoes "Step up" back at me while either not moving at all, or deciding to regurgitate for me, I know he just plain doesn't WANT to. If I don't NEED him to, I don't make him, but if he's out and I really need him to go back in the cage, we have a good enough relationship that I can just scoop him up, which is rather forcing the issue. But I give him some attention for letting me do it before I put him back inside. If it ever becomes a real problem, I suppose I'll have to go back to basics and re-train the interaction, but I'm not really that into formal training with my birds, just shaping their behavior enough that we are all getting along and having a good time.

Actually I think Scotty is a bit bored and I may try some more formal training, but that would definitely be entirely encouragement based as the whole point is to amuse him.

I tried training Scooter for some basic tricks once, and his whole attitude was "OK.... but can't I do something more fun like rip up this paper towel?".

 

[luvmytooo]

Agility is a blast !!!!
Yes , I'm a agility addict ,lolol
To bad there isn't a Tellington T Touch method for birds , lolol
Have you heard of her ? I took my horse to one of her seminars

 

[DebsFlock]

I'm surprised at how many horse people are also bird people!

TTouch is kind of faded into the past, I think... it's all Natural Horsemanship and Lyons and so forth these days. I'm kind of a classical dressage and eventing person myself, although I learned how to do equine massage and have used that quite successfully.

Tellington-Jones kind of lost me when she went on about whorls predicting a horse's personality, but I liked the concept of the TTouch itself.

I don't think we even have Xenophon for parrots yet, let alone the "new" approaches. LOL.

 

[WharfRat]

TTouch, Natural Horsemanship and Lyons and so forth, classical dressage and eventing person myself, Tellington-Jones, Xenophon

HEY!!!! Can y'all speak English so the rest of us have 1/2 a clue what the heck yer sayin'??? :09::20:

that there some secret woman code or sumthin?!?!?!

 

[luvmytooo]

Yeah , the TTouch is back when, I admit ,but that's how long it's been , lololol.
My horse , QH , I had to put down because or founder....
I had it under control for years , she was just a pet because of it , but it started to rotate and wouldn't stop .....sad. I had her for over twenty years.....my baby girl

Anywho , your right , a lot of bird people are horse people
Nice to meet someone that knows someone that does agility
That is something you don't hear too often here .....that's a addiction , lololol.
Just like birds are , but way more expensive once you get "the bug".

Shaping behaviors is a great way to train birds ,dogs , horses......
But it's usually paired with another form when using it with dogs , horses , etc....
Like I said , birds are just like trying to teach a cat to down , lololol.
There are the exceptions though , lol.

 

[ConureCrazy]

TTouch, Natural Horsemanship and Lyons and so forth, classical dressage and eventing person myself, Tellington-Jones, Xenophon

HEY!!!! Can y'all speak English so the rest of us have 1/2 a clue what the heck yer sayin'??? :09::20:

that there some secret woman code or sumthin?!?!?!

Umm... What?!?! SO CONFUSED

 

[luvmytooo]

ttouch, natural horsemanship and lyons and so forth, classical dressage and eventing person myself, tellington-jones, xenophon

hey!!!! Can y'all speak english so the rest of us have 1/2 a clue what the heck yer sayin'??? :d:09::20:

That there some secret woman code or sumthin?!?!?!

roflmao.
:d:d:d

 

[luvmytooo]

Alright , sorry .
Horse lingo
Back to bird lingo !!!!

 

[lizardsmells]

I've always had dogs and I've noticed lots of similarities in training methods, but it's basic stuff, like if what I have is better than what they're doing, they'll come to me. And positive reinforcement with as little focus on the negative as possible works great for both dogs and birds alike.

But dogs need a leader. They're designed to seek one out or be one themselves. Birds need a partner/guardian. I think of my interactions with Kazi more like how I'd interact with a toddler. My interaction with the dogs, et al is more a pack leader, "blind follower" kind of thing.

Kazi gets options more often than he gets orders, for the rest of the critters it's the other way around.

 

[luvmytooo]

Yep , pack leader in the dog world , but for birds , I dont know what we would call it ,lolol.
It's like they tolerate us , like most cats ,but need us a lot more
So , I guess chaperone woud fit , lololol. I'm trying to find the perfect word for our roll in the bird world , leaving out guardian ,momma,things like that .
Can anybody come with one that suits birds like pack leader suits the dog world describing what we are to our dogs.

 

[Mare Miller]

Flock member? There is a definite pecking order. You just better hope you're not at the bottom!

 

[WharfRat]

my best guess would be..........wait for it......................SLAVE :54:

I honestly don't think there is a word that can be used in "general". We've got 5 birds, all with very different & distinct personalities that treat each human in the house differently as well. I gotta think on this one a bit :20:

(I hate it when y'all make me do that )

 

[luvmytooo]

my best guess would be..........wait for it......................SLAVE :54:

I honestly don't think there is a word that can be used in "general". We've got 5 birds, all with very different & distinct personalities that treat each human in the house differently as well. I gotta think on this one a bit :20:

(I hate it when y'all make me do that )

OMG ROFLMAO WharfRat your too much !!!!!!!!!!!!!