Extreme toe tapping/wing flipping?

[Taw5106]

Just seeing this and jumping in. I have a very hormonal female Ekkie, a Green Cheek Amazon and a Congo African Gray. I feed them all fresh chop based on my Ekkie's needs, they all benefit. I do a base of brown rice and add a lot of dark greens for calcium like collard greens, okra, and spinach. A lot of bell peppers, all colors, carrots, peas, corn (treat), a lot of fruits, pomegranate is the Queen's favorite, but bottom line I make rice and have been chopping seasonal fruits and veggies to be their main stay with added rice as a carb. Treats are fruits, and nuts. Thankfully I haven't had toe and wing tapping yet!! I change up their veggies and fruits daily too.





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I didn't know that Buzz and Buddy were also on the fresh foods only diet, too! Nice! Yeah, so many people view the whole "fresh only" as an ekkie thing, but in truth a properly varied fresh diet is excellent for any parrot. Your birds are a great example of this. So is April's (Kiwibird's) Kiwi.



One thing though, Trace. From what I've researched, spinach has properties that tend to block the body's ability to absorb calcium. (Not permanently, just for the duration of that meal or maybe that day?) For this reason, I tend to go with broccoli for the calcium, or the mainstay powerhouse, dandelion.

Oh yes they all get to eat the same, all fresh foods. Buddy though while he eats most, if he sees you with a French fry, look out! He will pitch a MAJOR boogie woogie!!!!!! I don't know how he's survived 26 years because he is a junk food King!!!


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[ortootto]

No worries. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like. I'm not thrilled about the "higher" levels of Vitamin A, either. Not to mention the presence of peanuts is a definite issue as well. Not only for ekkies, but for parrots in general. Peanuts in and of themselves aren't the problem so much as their susceptibility to contamination by fungal toxins. These toxins can lead to the dangerously stubborn respiratory infection known as aspergillosis.

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Hi All,

Earlier our birds (the male much more) had TT/WF. Thanks to your advice upon major changes in their diet, symptoms ceased. Both birds look very good, feathers are shiny, mood is happy, etc.

I still did have done the full blood panel to both birds.
According to the vet, Calcium deficiency is still there, but what concerns us the most is their monocytes levels. Google is our friend, high monocytes count may be there due to some inflammation within the body most likely.

Should that be the case, the vet must continue the examination of the birds by endoscope to check the looks of the internal organs. This sounds awful, yet the next step is biopsy which is even worse.
So I want to avoid this unless it is really necessary.

Yet, as we are a small country and the vet did have reference values for grey, macaw and 'too only but not for eclectus, I am unsure if the values are so crappy when it comes to an eclectus.

So, does anybody know the reference values/ranges for an eclectus?

These are the results of one of our birds:
HEMATOLOGY
hematocrit %: 0,47
leucocyte (white blood cell) G/l: 3,38
heterophil gran. %: 37,9/abs: 1,28 G/I
lymphocyta %: 51,7/abs: 1,75 G/I
monocyta %: 20,3/abs: 0,69 G/I

BIOCHEMISTRY
total protein g/I: 14,5
albumin g/I: 30,2
AST (GOT) U/I: 195
CK U/I: 317
GGT U/I: 2,0
GLDH U/I: 1,6
bile acid umol/I: 66,4
amylase U/I: 523
lipase U/I: 11
glucose mmol/I: 15,0
uric acid umol/I: 14,0
phosphor mmol/: 0,83
calcium mmol/: 1,8

I hope to believe that the above values are not so crap, especially as the birds look very well and they behave normally (male is cute goofball, female is a moody gangsta)

Thanks for any of your feedback

 

[ortootto]

forgot to tell: birds are 8months old

 

[Anansi]

Unfortunately, I don't yet feel confident to speak with any authority on what the blood levels should be. On the off chance that I can hunt down one of Jolly's or Maya's reports, I'll post it here so that you can have a good basis for comparison. (Yeah, I should do a better job of holding onto these records and keeping them organized. Been spoiled by my AV's impeccable record keeping, I reckon.)

One thing that I do want to point out, though. And keep in mind this is only a possibility for you and your avian vet to consider. I'm by no means saying this is the issue. But the likelihood of inflammation as indicated by the elevated monocytes count opens up the possibility that they might have been born with a peripheral nervous system manifestation of Avian Borna Virus. This is a more manageable form of ABV/PDD than its autonomic or central nervous system cousins... and it has been known to trigger bouts of toe-tapping and wing-flipping during flare-ups.

As I said, this is only a possibility. But I did want to mention it just in case. Here is a thread I posted that goes into far more detail about ABV/PDD in general and the peripheral nervous system variant in particular: http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/61889-okay-let-s-talk-abv-pdd-toe-tapping.html

 

[ortootto]

I suspice that the breeder we got our birds from do not have the 'best' bloodlines.
By now we have treated 4 kinds of bacteria and fungi.
Both birds were having those right after we got them!

I am a bit pissed off.
Thanks for the help Anansi

 

[Anansi]

You're welcome.

And believe me, I've been there with suspect breeders. Bixby only made it to a year and a half because he came from a suspect breeder who didn't care that his breeder ekkies were carriers of one of the strains of ABV that leads to PDD. For some, it's all about the money.

 

[ortootto]

Selfishly the core of the problem is that we are already strongly attached to that two companions. I already taught the female to act being shot when on my finger and that is the least. Both birds are highly emotional, in a sense that they seemingly do have a very well developed emphatic personality. Never had eclectus before, and yea, I read a lot before getting one, now we have two and never wanna have another. I am addicted to them.

 

[Anansi]

You've got to catch that being shot trick on video for us!

 

[ortootto]

Newer blood test. Results are reassuring. Values are back to normal. Birds are fine

 

[Anansi]

That's great news! So glad to hear!

 

[ortootto]

Just can't give em food diverse enough so that they dont get bored with this or that from time to time. Maintaining to meet the ekkie's gastronomical desires is a real challenge