Getting impatient

[Anansi]

The technique that person is referring to is known as "flooding". The idea behind it is to force the bird past his fears so that he comes to realize that you're not going to eat him after all. Opponents of this method see it as a cruel "breaking" of the bird's will rather than earned trust.

Personally, that technique just isn't for me and my flock. No matter how long the wait, there's just something special about that moment when the trust between you, and the bond it inspires, grows stronger than his instinctive fear. Absolutely nothing like it.

And as for his happiness, even if he is right now, you're going for enrichment of his life. And a closer bond with you will indubitably enrich his life... and in turn, make him even happier. It's okay to challenge our fids, so long as we aren't pushing them harder and faster than they are prepared to go.

 

[Oliver17]

So when Oliver and I have a conversation, or I say good morning or good night he replies with a ehh. Does that mean he hears me? He will talk, nothing I’ve taught him as of yet.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I have read from both Birdman666 and Sally Blanchard about using a towel to remove a cage-bound bird. Not the flooding part, just to get them over the hump. You take the parrot into a neutral space such as a bathroom (toilet lid closed of course) and work with them there. Maybe just sit on the floor, maybe practice step up with a T-stand. Some birds will never come out of the cage on their own, and this gives them a chance to reset their understanding of the world.

In Sally's "Companion Parrot Handbook" on page 150 is a chapter about taming adult parrots, with an example case of a wild-caught military macaw that had never been handled or been out of the cage. She caught the bird - she couldn't get him with a towel so put on gloves to catch him and got a good bite. Took him to another room, he's wrapped in a towel, she takes off the gloves. She put him in a corner, still under the towel, and sat in front of the closed door and got into a relaxed state of mind. Once she felt calm, she reached over and put the macaw (still under the towel) in her lap, cupped her hand over his head to apply pressure to his head just behind the beak which calmed him down, then she fixed the towel so she could pet the back of his neck. He loved it so much she was able to take the towel off his head and neck and keep rubbing his neck, head, around his beak. She was eventually able to put him on her hand (still in the towel except for his head) and he was so obsessed with getting skritches for the first time he didn't seem to even notice.

I write all this to see if I can get some feedback. It seems that this isn't the same thing I've seen - the flooding where you wrap the bird tightly in the towel and hand him around until he calms down - it's just an intermediate stage to get the bird to a place where he can choose to be petted. Has anyone used this technique? Maybe it's not appropriate here. I think I recall Birdman666 saying he did that at a rescue, because there were birds who had been rotting in cages for years and would never come out on their own.

 

[Oliver17]

So last week my son was bringing in firewood and dropped a log near Oliver’s open cage. Oliver flew out( wings are clipped) to the ground and started to walk back towards his cage, Now normally birds on the ground automatically step up.
Not my Oliver walk over my hand, I attempted many times and push the side of my hand to his breast bone, he ignored me and went to his cage.
I can towel him if need be, but Iam unsure. The glove was a big no, I tried that to get him in carrier Togo to vet

 

[chris-md]

LOL! Parkers the same way. Wonders often and half the time refuses to step up, occasionally wandering back up his cage.

 

[Oliver17]

Chris-md, Does Parker answer you with an Ehh kind of noise?
I want to thank you for all your help, I look forward to your wisdom

 

[Anansi]

So when Oliver and I have a conversation, or I say good morning or good night he replies with a ehh. Does that mean he hears me? He will talk, nothing I’ve taught him as of yet.

I'd say this is him answering what he perceives to be your flock call. 97% of the issue with communication between us and our fids is that we don't speak the same "language". But him responding with an "ehh" is an acknowledgement of your call to him. I know the exact sound you're talking about, too! Mine do that as well. They also make a sound that sounds like, "hmm?" that they do exclusively in the evenings. Observe his body language enough when he makes certain utterances and you'll get more of an idea of where he is emotionally speaking. And, as a result, what that particular utterance means to him.

I have read from both Birdman666 and Sally Blanchard about using a towel to remove a cage-bound bird. Not the flooding part, just to get them over the hump. You take the parrot into a neutral space such as a bathroom (toilet lid closed of course) and work with them there. Maybe just sit on the floor, maybe practice step up with a T-stand. Some birds will never come out of the cage on their own, and this gives them a chance to reset their understanding of the world.

In Sally's "Companion Parrot Handbook" on page 150 is a chapter about taming adult parrots, with an example case of a wild-caught military macaw that had never been handled or been out of the cage. She caught the bird - she couldn't get him with a towel so put on gloves to catch him and got a good bite. Took him to another room, he's wrapped in a towel, she takes off the gloves. She put him in a corner, still under the towel, and sat in front of the closed door and got into a relaxed state of mind. Once she felt calm, she reached over and put the macaw (still under the towel) in her lap, cupped her hand over his head to apply pressure to his head just behind the beak which calmed him down, then she fixed the towel so she could pet the back of his neck. He loved it so much she was able to take the towel off his head and neck and keep rubbing his neck, head, around his beak. She was eventually able to put him on her hand (still in the towel except for his head) and he was so obsessed with getting skritches for the first time he didn't seem to even notice.

I write all this to see if I can get some feedback. It seems that this isn't the same thing I've seen - the flooding where you wrap the bird tightly in the towel and hand him around until he calms down - it's just an intermediate stage to get the bird to a place where he can choose to be petted. Has anyone used this technique? Maybe it's not appropriate here. I think I recall Birdman666 saying he did that at a rescue, because there were birds who had been rotting in cages for years and would never come out on their own.

That seems to me a variation of flooding wherein a pleasant sensation is used to break through the fear and apprehension the parrot is feeling. Mark has talked about using this method, but I view those instances as somewhat different. When working in a rescue trying to get through to birds who have gone downright feral after being mistreated for years, a lot of the usual methods and means fly right out the window. While I've worked with birds who were never hand-tamed, or who had been cage-bound for years, I can't say I've ever worked with a bird that has gone through the kind of abuse and trauma that some of the birds Mark has had to rehabilitate have. So I really couldn't speak on how well less aggressive techniques might work on a bird like that. (I remember the example of the poor macaw that had been kept caged in a dark storage unit for 28 years and I just shudder.)

Fortunately, I don't think Oliver quite falls into that category. But some might differ, preferring to use that technique even in a case like this. Just different approaches. No judgement, just not my cup o' tea.

 

[Oliver17]

Could Oliver remain happy this way, because this is all that he knows? It seems we are on a routine, do I throw a monkey wrench in that routine to spice things up? Like when you add something different to his food. If so, what could that be?
Thanks to all , I enjoy reading a lot of post not just ones of me and Oliver

 

[Anansi]

Yes, if he's happy he can remain so. You're obviously a very caring parront, and interaction doesn't necessarily have to be physical to be of value to a parrot. Think about it. There are people in this world who aren't really all that touchy-feely, either.

But at the same time, don't be discouraged that your efforts are taking time to yield fruit. Some birds are just harder nuts to crack than others. The eventual results will be worth it.

 

[Oliver17]

Haven’t really made any new improvements, I got afree standing perch, it has a cup holder on it. It is short but I leave the door open all day, the perch is almost level with the bottom of the door. Oliver has not once come out of his cage, I put his seeds he likes in there. It’s been 3+ weeks. Getting frustrated,
My vet has a one on one clinic you can sign up for, I wanted that to be my last resort.
Maybe we’re just not meant to be buddies, I picked Oliver, I should have waited I guess. I wanted to give him a better life, Iwanted a Ekkie, for a long time.
Bummed out ��

 

[Kentuckienne]

Haven’t really made any new improvements, I got afree standing perch, it has a cup holder on it. It is short but I leave the door open all day, the perch is almost level with the bottom of the door. Oliver has not once come out of his cage, I put his seeds he likes in there. It’s been 3+ weeks. Getting frustrated,
My vet has a one on one clinic you can sign up for, I wanted that to be my last resort.
Maybe we’re just not meant to be buddies, I picked Oliver, I should have waited I guess. I wanted to give him a better life, Iwanted a Ekkie, for a long time.
Bummed out ��

I don't want to discourage you. But you make a good point that I hope people pick up on. Taking in a bird that you really care about and want, even if the bird doesn't love you at first sight, can work out with time. The bird will likely come to accept the flock he's in. And even in cases where the parrot loves you on first bite, I mean sight, go wrong - the parrot can change his mind or get hormonal or something.

BUT ... if you have experience with parrots, or have your heart set on a certain kind of parrot, it might not be the best idea to ignore your own feelings. We got our Gus partly because somebody needed to give him a home, and with is physical issues he is less adoptable than most, and partly because the Better Half wanted to get a bird who would be more accepting of me than his amazon had been. This was a kind sentiment, and I appreciate it, but A) Gus still doesn't like me - I had to step back from him when he arrived because he was starting to bond more to me and B) BH still yearns for an amazon. So now we will likely have TWO parrots one day.

It can take a parrot a long time to come around. It sounds like your guy hasn't learned that living outside the cage is really an option. Maybe he never got out, or maybe he got out a time or two and was punished for it, or frightened by the experience. So it will take time to get him to accept that this it's OK. If you keep working on getting him to like you - a scritch through the bars, a treat through the bars ... then the cage becomes the barrier.

Can you find the One True Thing he wants? For our amazon, that was popcorn. He WANTED it. He BEGGED for it. And one day, when I was enjoying some on the couch next to his stand, he came over of his own free will and stood closer to me than he ever had, reaching and begging. You find that thing, and you don't give it to him in the cage. You sit nearby in a chair, maybe, with an open door he can climb on, or a perch next to the cage that he can reach, or at least where he has to stick his upper body out of the cage to reach, and eat that thing while ignoring the heck out of him. He will come, I bet. He will come, at least part way, and once he does that you can give him a little time to do that readily, then move farther away.

 

[Oliver17]

As you suggested I have done the same thing. He did come out once on his own. He got his treat and when he couldn’t figure how to get back in, I saw panic in him. But I gave him time to figure it out. I spoke calmly to him and offered my hand and he tried to bite me. Eventually I was able to calmly direct him in the right direction.
Never to come out again.
I was hoping our relationship would grow by now. I envisioned taking him outside while I garden and do yard work, or just chill with me this summer.
Bummed out, but not giving up.

 

[Dopey]

I have a 9 month old male ekkie. He's been at my house 7-8 weeks.
He absolutely hates to come out of his cage...on my skin - arm or hand. If I forget to take my jacket off before I try to get him out...he steps right up and then does several step ups with me and then lets me cuddle him.

I have a macaw that is the same way. If I try to get him to step up on my arm he goes to bite me. If I wrap my arm in a colorful towel he gets real excited and steps right up.

I don't know that this will work for you but just keep trying until you find it. AND it maybe that he's just going to be a cage ekkie but keep that door open in case he changes his mind.

You are doing a great job and have more patience than I do.

 

[Oliver17]

Ok guys what do you think of this idea, I did explain to someone else my thoughts and concerns about Oliver, The person raised Ekkies, so I figure a reliable source.
They suggested getting another bird of my choice, and show Oliver how it’s done.
Is that a thing? Could it work? I really wouldn’t mind adding a bird to my home.
What’s the thoughts?
As always I look forward to your opinions Thanks

 

[LordTriggs]

Ok guys what do you think of this idea, I did explain to someone else my thoughts and concerns about Oliver, The person raised Ekkies, so I figure a reliable source.
They suggested getting another bird of my choice, and show Oliver how it’s done.
Is that a thing? Could it work? I really wouldn’t mind adding a bird to my home.
What’s the thoughts?
As always I look forward to your opinions Thanks

but what happens if that bird decides to be off? It sounds a lot like getting a bird for the sake of your original bird which I hope people are aware of my stance on this. I think yes there is reason to stand on with birds learning from other birds, but I would try using youtube and getting videos of parrots being friendly and cute to try and peak Oli's interest and possibly getting a stuffed parrot rival. Sure you may look a bit silly walking round with a toy parrot whilst the real one sits over yonder but who wants to look sensible?

 

[Anansi]

I wouldn't get another bird solely for the sake of being a model for Oliver. There are simply no guarantees in that regard. Now if you simply feel moved to get another bird, that's entirely different. Given the love and dedication you've shown Oliver, such a bird would be fortunate to have you.

So in short, if you're going to get a second bird do it for the right reasons. Just my take.

 

[chris-md]

This could work, jealousy can actually be a great tool to aid in training.

But it’s a terrible reason to get a second bird. It’s really only a good tool if you happen to already have a second bird on hand.

Which is why I agree with Stephen, unless your motivations for a second bird are “man, I love Oliver but I really want a second bird. I have so much more love to give”, don’t even think about it.

 

[Oliver17]

OH I do have lots of love to give, thats why I volunteer at a bird rescue. I learn a lot, I also give out meds, I handle a lot of birds and I clean a lot of cages. Iam consider MAMA to a male umbrella cockatoo, and a B&G macaw. I love spending time with all the birds. This is why I get little frustrated with Oliver, I will always love my Oliver I see a lot of potential in him, I see a personality, he can be such a brat he makes me laugh.
Thanks to everybody, I like what I learn here and I read other forums on other birds and
try to incorporate what I learn here with the birds at the rescue

 

[chris-md]

Have you also considered hiring a professional bird trainer? Little pricey but ultimately one way to help overcome your challenges.

I really do feel like the answer is staring your right in the face here, but we’re ALL missing it. I feel like a professional trainer will actually be able to help you overcome this very quickly.

 

[Oliver17]

I have considered my vet, she will do a 1on1 for an hour for$125 bucks
I there someone you know personally?