Maxwells Behavioral problems

[Kiwibird]

100% normal. Birds who haven't been well socialized can be very aggressive towards strangers and many birds are fine around adults and hate kids because children are unpredictable, loud, rambunctious etc... and they can sense it. Birds who have bonded to their owner in a way they perceive the owner as their 'mate' can also lash out as they feel they are defending their 'mate'.

With the serious issues your bird is having, you need to work on fixing your relationship with him before working on socializing him with strangers. For now the safest option would be to have him locked in a cage or in another room when strangers come around. Also, I never allow non-bird people to hold my bird. Parrots can and do occasionally bite and anyone who isn't familiar with birds just doesn't get that it happens sometimes. Obviously its not good for a bird to bite any guest but if it's someone who's only a casual acquaintance, they could sue for their injuries or take other legal action against you.

 

[Conner]

I will probably get him to the vet with in the next month or so, Which blood tests should be done?

 

[Conner]

And part of whats causing it could be that some of my family are not very nice to him when he is being stubborn/aggressive. Rude words unfortounatly sometimes yelling..

 

[Laurasea]

You said you still have a dog, he is very likely fearful of the dog, even if that wasn't the one that attached him....I would always put the dog away when you work with him. Once you have gained his trust back you can work with him and other people, but first he needs to know there is someone he can trust, and everyone else should respect him and give him space. I am so glad he survive that!!! I agree with others he might very well have chronic pain. Definitely need the vet visit. Birds are never to old to change, never give up on them. I have a rescue, and at first she was very sweet and so happy to be rescued. Then we went through some trying times if constantly screaming and bites. I went through all the bonding, treats, consistent, patience. She turned right around no bites, she just pushed my hand away now if she us unhappy, no screaming, abd now very loving snuggling. She has some triggers from past abuse, I can never cover her cage, or hold a stick or sweep near her, but all else is good. And my GCC of eight years I list her trust when trying to harness train, took six months of work to get her trust back. You can make progress too. I would probably do your training bonding, with just you , maybe take him into a bedroom when working with him, so no other pets and people. And speak with all family members that they have to leave him alone, once you have made headway, you can bring in one person and work with them, after he trusts the two of you, work on adding the next person. I think you said you have a large family?? I had to take quite a few bites, without anger, without frustration, without any punishment, and without giving up to heal my relationship with my birds. And learn to read your birds body language. I'm not sure if you told us where in the house the cage is placed? It's completely understandable that your bird had a behavior change after the trauma, the hospitalization and treatment. Now you need to heal his soul, and make him feel he has a flock he can trust.

 

[Conner]

Thanks for all the help guys, his cage is in the corner of our kitchen right next to the dinner table, so he can see and know what's going on, And family is usually around the kitchen area, so he is with people.



How should I proceed with him? Is it as simple as going into a bedroom and feeding him treats and just sitting with him? If so, how long? And specifically what blood tests should he have?

 

[Conner]

His bed is kind of like this but instead of poofy white fabric, its just purple felt.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07JYZWJ4V/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1

Do I really need to get rid of it? He seems to like it a lot.

 

[LaManuka]

Yes you need to get rid of it and fast. I have read far too many posts from heartbroken bird owners whose bird has either strangled themselves on loose threads or have ingested (completely unbeknown to the owner) many many tiny pieces of fabric over time which block the intestines and has proven deadly.

These sorts of hiding places also feed into undesirable hormonal behaviours which can contribute to aggression so yes you need to remove it. You may not be very popular for a few days but it’s safest in the long run!

 

[Conner]

Aww man, I was hoping I didn't have to get rid of it, He seems to love it.

 

[LaManuka]

I know they love em, doesn’t seem fair does it?!

Seriously though if you use your favourite internet search engine to look up the topic the number of tragic stories will blow your mind and break your heart. There’s a link here on the forum somewhere too. I don’t know which marketing genius it was came up with the idea that birds need those contraptions to hide/sleep in but they don’t. Actually very recently another new member was persuaded to get rid of hers and reported an improvement in her bird’s behaviour. Individual results will vary of course but give Max a few days to get used to the idea and he should be fine.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Aww man, I was hoping I didn't have to get rid of it, He seems to love it.

would you rather have him be a little grumpy/ticked off for a bit coz his blankie is gone...or would you rather have him DEAD? Because THAT is what can,and does,happen. We are not trying to scare you ( or maybe we are! for your birds sake!) You are being told the absolute truth..so it is up to you!



Jim

 

[EllenD]

I didn't know he had a "Happy Hut" too...That could very well be the reason he's not feeling well too, that makes his trip to a Certified Avian Vet even more crucial. Those things have killed literally thousands of birds, and it actually says "Not intended for use with Conures" right on the front of the packaging now because they have killed so many Green Cheeks, Suns, Jendays, etc. They have killed many other birds too, but Conures in particular love to snuggle up in things, and they sit inside and pick slowly at that purple or yellow felt, and over time it builds-up inside of their Crops and their GI Tracts, and then one day they are dead suddenly from an obstruction...Or they literally hang themselves by the neck or leg and die that way. So if you haven't removed it yet, please pitch it immediately!!! Now!!! Here's the link from one of the many pages where hundreds of people who have lost their birds to these things post their pain and stories...Happy Hut Warning

***The other thing it's no-doubt been doing is causing his hormones to go insane...Just removing that "Happy Hut" may totally change his personality/attitude towards everyone, not only you. That's how much Green Cheeks are effected by small, dark places...So no Huts, no tents, no boxes, no fabric/cloth of any kind or any "bedding" material like wood chips, nesting material, no towels, blankets, nothing at all that he can get in/get under and that is warm or dark! I'm serious, he may very well snap-out of this in a few days after simply removing that Hut!!! Just allow him to sleep on a perch, that's how they sleep naturally, and he'll be fine. It's the only safe and healthy way to have him, no "beds" at all...

As far as the Blood-Work, any Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist will know what basic tests to run, just like when a person has "routine" Blood-Work done...Tell them he's never had any Blood-Work or a Fecal done and you want to have regular Blood-Work done...It will include a CBC, a Metabolic Panel, and then both Liver and Kidney Panels, and then anything else the CAV likes to run for routine wellness. Most of these "panels" include a bunch of different tests within them, so you'll get a full picture of his physical health, you'll know if he has any infections, is anemic, has any nutritional issues, any liver or kidney issues etc. Also, make sure you request/demand a Fecal as well...

After removing that Hut, if you see him ever start to constantly (all the time) adjust his crop, or he ever starts regurgitating/vomiting anything "purple" up, or he ever starts straining to poop, then it's an emergency and he needs to get to a CAV immediately,
tell them he used to have one of those "Happy Huts" and that it was purple in-color,
and that's when he needs a regular x-ray. It's totally normal for them to adjust their crop occasionally or to regurgitation occasionally, but if it becomes constant or if anything purple comes up, then that's when you have to worry...They regularly do necropsy on pet parrots who were found dead in their cages for no reason at all, and they find their entire GI Tracts loaded with that fleece-like fabric those Huts are made of, either yellow, purple, or green...

***But seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few days to a week after removing the "Hut" that his personality towards you and everyone else were to change completely...Quick story about my Green Cheek Conure, Bowie, that may make you feel a bit better...Bowie was hand-raised, I brought him home at 13 weeks old, he's a little sweetheart and loves to cuddle, lets me handled him however I want to, flies to me whenever I call him no matter where he's at, etc. He turned 2 years-old this past April, so he's going-on 3 years-old now. Last year Bowie and my Quaker Parrot, Lita, were downstairs eating their breakfast, while I was in the walk-out level of my house cleaning the Budgie's aviary...I was only down there for 10 minutes, when i came back up I saw my Quaker on their play-gym, but no Bowie...I called him and nothing, no sound from him at all, I spent 15 minutes losing my mind because I couldn't find him...I actually started to think "Either he got out of the house somehow and he's gone, or he's dead in the house somewhere", and I was just frantic...Then I started looking behind/underneath furniture with a flashlight, thinking that Bowie was dead, tears streaming down my eyes..

Then I got down and looked under my couch with the flashlight, and there was Bowie, crouched/bent over because my couch only has about 2 inches of space underneath it. He had been running around underneath the couch "collecting" things and bringing them back to one spot, making a little "nest" for himself, which he was laying/sitting in the middle of....Now Bowie is DNA-tested as a male, and this was really strange to me, but you gotta remember, "small, dark, warm place" he was in...Here's the really strange and alarming part...Bowie was looking right at me, and I was talking to him and asking him to come out, but it was like he was looking at me, but he was in some kind of "trance", and he didn't really see me. He was talking to himself the entire time, half in "Birdy" and half in English, mumbling to himself non-stop, staring at me the whole time, but acting like he couldn't see or hear me at all...It was bizarre and frightening, and I knew this was happening due to his hormones going out of control because he had been in a small, dark, warm place and made himself a little "nest"...But it was still very weird to me...I got tired of trying to get him to come out on his own, so I went and got a yard-stick, and I used it to just "sweep" him forward and out from under the couch...As soon as his head poked out from under the couch, he CHARGED ME, like suddenly ran as fast as he could and latched onto my hand, on the skin between my thumb and my index finger, and refused to let go...Bowie had never ever bitten me before, not ever! Only "play-biting", but that was it...I was bleeding and it hurt so badly, but I made myself not say a word or make a sound, I sat there with him attached to my hand, blood running down, and I worked on prying his beak off for about 2 minutes before he let go. He hit the floor and ran right back under the couch!!! I went and cleaned my hand up and put a Band-Aid on it, and looked back under the couch, and there he was again, mumbling to himself and staring at me...This time I was ready, but before I could sweep him out again he charged at me again! He ran out from under the couch on his own, and this time he attached to the skin on the top of my foot! This one hurt really badly, he wouldn't let go, and this time I was yelling "Bowie, what the f*** is wrong with you?!?"...I don't even remember what I said, lol...I again spent a good minute or two prying his beak off of my foot, and again he hit the floor and ran back under the couch! I went and cleaned my foot up this time, but this wasn't going to happen again...I was ready for him this time, and this time I swept him out from under the couch and grabbed him in a "towel-hold" without a towel, by the back of his head...I immediately put him back in his cage and latched the door (which never happens when I'm at home, all 4 of them are always out whenever I'm home), and I let him "cool off"...About 20 minutes later I heard him calling me like he always does, I have a "contact-call" with each of my birds, and Bowie is the best talker by-far of all of them, he says about 15-20 words/phrases and also is now making sounds like the phone, the doorbell, the microwave, etc. Anyway, he suddenly just started calling me "My Baby! My Baby! Gimme Kisses!" over and over, so I went back downstairs and sat next to his cage...I wanted to make sure it wasn't an ambush, lol...I opened up his cage and he immediately flew right out and onto my shoulder, and kissed my nose, making the "kissing" sound, and was perfectly normal and fine again...It was truly the most bizarre thing I've had happen with one of my own birds in 32 years of owning/breeding parrots...

**So the moral of my long story is that hormones make parrots go insane. And any small, dark, warm place that a parrot can get into or underneath, even just under a towel or blanket quickly, or inside of a dark box, can cause their hormones to flare and rush, and they literally go insane. There was just another post on the forum a couple of weeks ago with another Conure, I believe in this same Forum-folder, where the owner was concerned about their bird's behavior, I'm trying to remember what the specific problem was...Anyway, after we asked them a bunch of questions they posted a photo of their bird's cage, and guess what was inside? There it was, a bright yellow "Happy Hut". So we all immediately pounced on him about the "Death Hut" (as I like to call them), so he hesitantly removed the Hut from his bird's cage (he said the same thing, his bird loved it so much, he slept in it every night, etc.)...And then the very next day they posted an update saying that their bird's behavior had already done a 180 since he removed the "Happy Hut". So the "Hut" was the root of the problem.

I'm hoping that you're going to find quickly that the "Hut" was causing your buddy's behavioral/personality issues, and that you'll see at least a little change soon after removing the Hut...Either way you must remove it immediately if you haven't already, and NEVER PUT IT BACK IN! Throw it out in the trash where it belongs. Your Green Cheek will sleep perfectly well on a perch, just like they have for millions of years...And please give us an update of any changes you might notice after removing the Hut.

You know what, those Huts aren't "Happy" at all...

 

[Conner]

Okay im taking the bed out, What does it mean when max crawls under his bed and hides?
Is that bad? Is pretty cold where I live, does he go under the bed to get warm?

 

[ChristaNL]

No, bluntly speaking: he goes under the bed to have a sexy-time.
Pretend-nesting and such.

The problem with this is not that he is having fun, but like the nest-sleeping place it stimulates his (her?) hormones...and since there is no-one around to really have sex with -> that leads to frustration and that can lead to agression.
Maybe external/ towards humans (biting, not being tame or even nice anymore, to anyone), but maybe internal/ towards himself (and another plucker/ selfmutilator is born).

That is why is is easier to pretend there is no such thing as nesting-season and not stimulate that part of birdness.
It is kind of friendzoning your parrot - permanently!

A romantic bird is a problematic bird.
(for humans anyway)

 

[Conner]

Okay, Bed is out. If thats the problem then when should I expect to see results? or is it random?

 

[LaManuka]

I think you need to slow down a little. The bed “may” be feeding in to “some” of Max’s issues. Or it may not. Individual results will vary on this front and no-one can ever profess to know exactly what’s going on in a parrot’s mind and/or body. You need to relax a bit and allow Max some space to get used to the changes that are going on around him. The bed simply had to go for the health and safety reasons stated but the rest is up to him. Sometimes it can take a very looooong time for a bird to come around, and I hope precious little Max warms up to you again soon but you need take a step back and allow him to adjust. I sincerely hope things improve for you both and that you’ll keep us posted!

 

[ChristaNL]

If there are no more pretend-nests around he can be really grumpy for a few days/ weeks or maybe he is a realist and will give up very soon, all parrots react differently.


Mine will only seem to give up but always be on the lookout for another opportunity.
(I had to fish Appie out of the laundry a week ago - she decided the frontloading machine looked like a big nest-box anyway... and trying to see it from her perspective: she was not wrong, it really does look like one! )
Devious little grey hormonebombs.

 

[Conner]

Im going to start bringing him into my room and sit with him and give him his favorite seeds, I havent decided what his favorite seed is though, Chia, Hemp and Bell pepper and safflower seeds. He loves though's more than anything.

Good or bad idea?

 

[Conner]

A week after taking his bed out, I honestly don't think he cared one little bit

Very interesting bird that one lol

 

[ChristaNL]

Oh yes he is


It can take a few months for things to calm down (we all hope it will happen sooner of course).
Keep up working with him as a friend.

 

[EllenD]

Keep in-mind that you're also dealing with a traumatic event that resulted in a physical, painful injury. Birds are extremely intelligent, your little guy has the intelligence of a 3-4 year-old human child, and the memory of one as well...So even if he's not in any physical pain any longer, he remembers what happened to him. The dog being in the house, whether it's the same dog that attacked him or not, is no doubt causing him stress/anxiety just from simply knowing that he's there. If it's the same dog that attacked him, then that will only make it worse. So it's going to be important to always make sure that the dog is far away from him when he's out of his cage, and never allow the dog to sit or lay anywhere near his cage either.

As far as removing the "Hut" goes, at least you got it out of there and you know it's not going to harm him/kill him. And as already mentioned, sometimes it does take a while for the hormones to dissipate too, just like a dog that is neutered or spayed...People get their dogs fixed because they want to stop unwanted behaviors like humping, lifting their legs on everything, being out of control with energy, etc. So they get them fixed, and then they expect them to change right away...some do, some don't. It just depends on the individual dog/bird, sometimes it takes months for the hormones to cease...As a woman who had a complete/total hysterectomy when I was only 32, and where they removed both of my ovaries, I can attest to this...I thought I was one of the lucky ones who wasn't going to have hot-flashes, night sweats, etc. because I felt fine for a good month after the surgery...then one day..BAM! Constant hot-flashes, sweats, mood-swings, etc. It took over a month for the estrogen to work it's way out of my body...So if removing the Hut didn't cause an instant change like it does in some birds, you'll see some gradual changes, especially during the spring "breeding season"...

But again, you've also got other issues at play here, the big one being the dog attack. That's your "cause" of the problems, and it's likely that it's the main cause of his issues, whether because he's still having daily, constant, physical pain, or it's constant anxiety/stress from the attack...And as someone stated above, if you were the one who got the dog off of him, he may have thought that you were the one hurting him unfortunately...

So the first thing you still need to do is to get him to a CAV or Avian Specialist, get a Fecal and complete Blood-Work done, and make sure that he is physically healthy. The CAV may also suggest that he have a regular x-ray done so he can check for any permanent damage/injury or swelling that is causing nerve-impingement, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they did suggest that since that dog attack is the root of his behavioral issues...Also, keep in-mind that because birds hide all outward signs/symptoms of illness and pain, he may also be suffering from an illness or injury that has nothing at all to do with the dog attack, or he may have sustained another physical injury from the attack that you're not even aware of. So that's step #1, making sure that he physically healthy and not in any pain...Typically they'll give him a prescription of Metacam, which is a non-narcotic pain killer and strong anti-inflammatory, and tell you to give it to him daily for a week or two to see if his behavior/personality changes at all while he's on the pain medication. If his behavior/personality does change for the good while he's on the Metacam, then you know for sure that he's been in pain this whole time...But either way, this is your next step, hopefully you'll be able to find an experienced CAV and get him there ASAP (we can help you find the nearest CAV if you don't know of one, again, you don't want to take him to any "Exotics" Vet or General Vet for this.

After you rule-out a physical cause, then it's down to you simply earning his trust again, which you'll have to do anyway..And that just involves you spending as much one-on-one time with him as you can, using Positive-Reinforcement...