Merlin & Charlie update thread!

[JerseyWendy]

Please don't beat yourself up over the quarantine thing, Cat.

My Ripley was never quarantined either. He had just had a fully check up a few months before he came home with me, and he had another a short while after I brought him home.

I bet your Charlie & Merlin LOVE being next to each other.

 

[Mayden]

Please don't beat yourself up over the quarantine thing, Cat.

My Ripley was never quarantined either. He had just had a fully check up a few months before he came home with me, and he had another a short while after I brought him home.

I bet your Charlie & Merlin LOVE being next to each other.

Thanks Wendy, I do feel really bad about it but there's no point pretending it didn't happen and to carry on quarantining! The nurse I spoke to was great, I told her what happened and what I thought about my stupid self and she just laughed at me, called me a daft mare and to not worry unless there's something to be worried about! Did a little 'over the phone' health check and she okay-d everything from that point of view but we agreed to bring them both in after Charlie's had some time to settle and I've got decent timing off work (when my friend can take us).

They'll BOTH be at the vets in 2 weeks time but until then, we're just being eagle eyed with them. It's a shame they don't get on yet, the weathers great and I'd love them to both be outside!

Merlin's being very very relaxed about having Charlie around, which is nice. I was worried he was going to get jealous, angsty and stressed but he's just being himself, playing as usual, chattering for my attention a little less and he does cry less frequently when I leave too. He's currently shredding some bright orange paper at the bottom of his cage, just appreciating I'm in the same room.

Charlie's also relaxed. He's sat on his perch preening. Has eaten, has done a nice big poop this morning (hurrah!) haven't seen him drink yet but I've not been home from work long. They both clambered for my attention when I walked in and so naturally I came to Merlin first, gave him some loves through the cage, then Charlie asked for scritches, so I gave him some. Then I've sat down and just ignored them. Trying to see if I can just supervise any interaction via cages for them two.

Merlin is favouring the side of the cage closest to Charlie at the moment though

 

[Mitchan]

I am sooo happy things seem to be going so well! I've said it before, but everything you write about them remind me sooo much of Miley and Alaska when I'd recently introduced them to eachother. (And I'm sure you know how well that went, now - only 6 months later - they can even share a cage without any problems, heeehee)
I'm really glad Merlin seems so happy about the company. Even if they never do fully get along, there's always that - Merlin will always have a flock member close, and from the sound of it, he's already grateful for that.

 

[Mayden]

I am sooo happy things seem to be going so well! I've said it before, but everything you write about them remind me sooo much of Miley and Alaska when I'd recently introduced them to eachother. (And I'm sure you know how well that went, now - only 6 months later - they can even share a cage without any problems, heeehee)
I'm really glad Merlin seems so happy about the company. Even if they never do fully get along, there's always that - Merlin will always have a flock member close, and from the sound of it, he's already grateful for that.

That's all I want! If they can be out together and place nicely, ace! If they can share a cage that would just be amazing. I have high hopes but I'm happy just as long as they're happy with each others company. We honestly expected Merlin to be all lungey at him what with him never been near another bird (except Budgie's) before. He was curious and wanted to climb his cage, which was a nono. But that's it, just curious.

They're both just preening themselves at the moment. Happy, content birdies. What more could I want?

 

[Mayden]

Had Charlie stepping up onto a stick for me when Merlin was (supposed to be!) napping. Merlin came to the bottom of his cage and whistled at me so I brought Charlie over. Merlin whistled at him, eyes pinned and just watched him and whistled. Charlie was nervous I think, or disinterested. Was nice for them to not be trying to beak at each other or anything though.

I praised Merlin for being such a good little devil and he carried on playing with his foot toys whilst whistling at me and Charlie. Yey!

 

[JerseyWendy]

The first "encounters" are always nail biters, aren't they????

 

[Mayden]

The first "encounters" are always nail biters, aren't they????

We tried them yesterday but they both kept wanting to step up onto each others cages to 'get a better look' so we had to remove them from the situation to avoid any toe loss! Today went well though, slow and steady! We're in no rush so even if it's 3 steps forward, 2 steps back, we'll get there....

 

[JamesC]

Just watch for absolute stillness with eyes flashing. That is my Sidney's warning sign when he wants to go after the blue crowns. He will be very stiff and I can feel it in his body. Then he will suddenly snap and attack. Sometimes though, he will stalk them. Just slowly and steadily moving closer (while I'm alert and already have a hand set to block him).

Hopefully your pair will accept each other with no fussiness. Best of luck!

 

[SoCalWendy]

Btw on that avian website, it said that Senegal's weights are supposed to be between 110-130 grams. Average 125 grams.

 

[SoCalWendy]

The first "encounters" are always nail biters, aren't they????

Tell me about it! I don't think Rio and Kiwi will ever be friends. Kiwi got on top of Rio's cage today. Rio tried to get her lil feet, i had to quickly remove Kiwi - lil instigator. But they do tolerate each other from a distance. And will even talk to each other, even though they are different species.

 

[Mayden]

Btw on that avian website, it said that Senegal's weights are supposed to be between 110-130 grams. Average 125 grams.

Thanks for that bit of info. Explains why Merlin is on the podgy side. I blame his lack of exercise personally. We're working on it.

Tell me about it! I don't think Rio and Kiwi will ever be friends. Kiwi got on top of Rio's cage today. Rio tried to get her lil feet, i had to quickly remove Kiwi - lil instigator. But they do tolerate each other from a distance. And will even talk to each other, even though they are different species.

I think cages are a very sensitive thing with birds. That's THEIR territory. Merlin and Charlie won't be doing any more meetings around cages because I know Charlie is territorial about his space (and even Merlin's, he screams when I touches Merlin's cage!) and Merlin is territorial about his space too. So I don't want them lashing out at each other just for being in the 'wrong place'. Will be taking them to a 'neutral' room for more interactions because I know that with my two, cage introductions are emergency vet visits waiting to happen!

 

[Mayden]

So, been mistold information again it seems.

Charlie is banded 05. Which means to me that he's actually 8 years old and not 12!

Unless other's can clarify? Didn't get the rest of his number - and I wouldn't post it here anyways, but he's definitely 05. Whereas Merlin is just 1. (April 2011 he was hatched.)

So looks like our chap is a little younger than thought.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Nope, I can't clarify, and I agree with you. If he's banded 05, he is indeed 8 years old.

How's he doing??? How are he and Charlie getting it on?

 

[Mayden]

Nope, I can't clarify, and I agree with you. If he's banded 05, he is indeed 8 years old.

How's he doing??? How are he and Charlie getting it on?

They're getting on fine in their cages next to each other. Andrew said they had some beaking when he brought X to Y's cage (can't remember who to what!) but since they're both cage aggressive I told him to not do that because it's basically asking for trouble!

If one of them is out in the bird room though, they will happily stay on their own cage 'ignoring' the other bird and don't make any attempt to get at the others cage (both right next to each other) so I guess that's a good sign that there is no mega aggression between the pair.

I want to get them out together in a neutral area, but Andrew wants to give it more time. Considering how ignorant they are of each other at the moment, I'm quite happy to give it a whirl now, but will speak to vet.

Also, anyone have any suggestions for the neutral introduction? Had plans of just us both being in the room, playing with each bird and letting them 'find' each other in their own time - act as if it's no big deal and just to try and carry on playing with each bird?

Also, thoughts on clipping Charlie? Right now he is currently flighted (and I'm pro-flight as most of you know) but was considering perhaps during the introduction phase of them meeting if we were to give Charlie a light clip so there's no flying attacks from Charlie (who appears the 'aggressor' of the two, if you can call it that). In a perfect world, if clipping would help, we'd clip them both but as Merlin has a bad leg and relies heavily on his wings, it would be like taking wings and a leg from Charlie and expecting him to get on with life - too much!

Thoughts? We just want to reduce any likelyhood of them attacking each other, so if anyone has any input on that. If it worked for you, what type of clip you'd recommend if you do recommend a clip. Will again be speaking to our vet, but your opinions are welcome!

*Other than 'clipping is butchering' because I'm well aware of the pros and cons of clipping/vs not and noone will convince me to sway the otherway overall, so please, neutral stand points only!

Thanks!

 

[Mitchan]

If they're not interested in being aggressive towards eachother unless they're "protecting" their cages or whatever, I don't think a neutral introduction would be too bad right now.
Your plans on introducing them sounds just fine to me, that's pretty much what I did with Miley and Alaska.

I however really don't think you should clip Charlie, and especially if he's the more "aggressive" one, because if Merlin would try to be close to Charlie, and Charlie didn't approve, and also felt like he was limited and couldn't really get away/fly as well as before, that would more likely just increase his "reasons" to attack. If he doesn't want Merlin close, he'll probably just fly away, I don't think he would actually attack Merlin without a real reason, since it doesn't sound like he's been paying Merlin too much negative attention before.

My Miley have been known to attack me for.. Moving my head a bit too fast for her liking, or.. Just seemingly without any reason at all, so she's definitely my more aggressive bird.
Before she and Alaska got along, Alaska seemed to like her way more than she liked Alaska, which lead to Miley feeling a bit annoyed with Alaska's constant following her around. More often than not, Miley would just fly to me or the tree to get away from Alaska, and Alaska would often leave it for a while. If she did fly after her, or if Miley felt like she had no way of getting away, she would kind of raise her wings, open her beak and almost "threaten" Alaska (like in this photo, from their actual first meeting!), but never actually bite or attack.
This was SO SCARY for ME in the beginning, but as Alaska learned to respect Miley's privacy and recognize these "warnings", I also learned that they were nothing but warnings.
In the beginning, after these warnings, Alaska would find herself a bit startled, enough for Miley to find an opportunity to fly away from her instead.
I feel like if Miley had been clipped during these events, she would've probably been frustrated that she couldn't really get away as well or as fast, and since Alaska didn't really get the warnings straight away, I'm afraid that all might have lead to some bites or attacks.


So yeah, I definitely recommend to at LEAST try it out without any clipping involved. Just watch their body languages carefully. Try and learn and look out for the difference between harmless warnings and potential attacks.
Also, I don't know what other people did/would have done, but when I introduced my two, I had in mind not to interfere too much, but rather let them fly away or come to me on their own. Because I feel like, if I would have removed Alaska when Miley was warning her, Alaska wouldn't have learned what Miley tried to say, or that it WAS a warning - and if I would have removed Miley, she would have been REALLY OFFENDED that I only picked her up when Alaska was being a pain in the butt.
So yeah, I'd let them do what they wanted to as long as they didn't show any real aggressions towards eachother or anything.
Of course, I only had them out together for a little while at a time in the beginning, so they didn't have to deal with eachother too much and both got their own time with me too. (After a while I started having them out together for longer and longer, since when Miley was with me, Alaska kept away, and vice versa - so giving them private time with me worked just fine with both of them out in the birdroom too, and when they felt like it, they could interact with eachother too. ...Except they didn't really care about eachother until after 2-3 months or so of that, haha.)



I hope my experiences can be of any sort of help, and I REALLY hope your boys will do just as well as my girls.... Or better!

 

[Mayden]

If they're not interested in being aggressive towards eachother unless they're "protecting" their cages or whatever, I don't think a neutral introduction would be too bad right now.
Your plans on introducing them sounds just fine to me, that's pretty much what I did with Miley and Alaska.

I however really don't think you should clip Charlie, and especially if he's the more "aggressive" one, because if Merlin would try to be close to Charlie, and Charlie didn't approve, and also felt like he was limited and couldn't really get away/fly as well as before, that would more likely just increase his "reasons" to attack. If he doesn't want Merlin close, he'll probably just fly away, I don't think he would actually attack Merlin without a real reason, since it doesn't sound like he's been paying Merlin too much negative attention before.

My Miley have been known to attack me for.. Moving my head a bit too fast for her liking, or.. Just seemingly without any reason at all, so she's definitely my more aggressive bird.
Before she and Alaska got along, Alaska seemed to like her way more than she liked Alaska, which lead to Miley feeling a bit annoyed with Alaska's constant following her around. More often than not, Miley would just fly to me or the tree to get away from Alaska, and Alaska would often leave it for a while. If she did fly after her, or if Miley felt like she had no way of getting away, she would kind of raise her wings, open her beak and almost "threaten" Alaska (like in this photo, from their actual first meeting!), but never actually bite or attack.
This was SO SCARY for ME in the beginning, but as Alaska learned to respect Miley's privacy and recognize these "warnings", I also learned that they were nothing but warnings.
In the beginning, after these warnings, Alaska would find herself a bit startled, enough for Miley to find an opportunity to fly away from her instead.
I feel like if Miley had been clipped during these events, she would've probably been frustrated that she couldn't really get away as well or as fast, and since Alaska didn't really get the warnings straight away, I'm afraid that all might have lead to some bites or attacks.


So yeah, I definitely recommend to at LEAST try it out without any clipping involved. Just watch their body languages carefully. Try and learn and look out for the difference between harmless warnings and potential attacks.
Also, I don't know what other people did/would have done, but when I introduced my two, I had in mind not to interfere too much, but rather let them fly away or come to me on their own. Because I feel like, if I would have removed Alaska when Miley was warning her, Alaska wouldn't have learned what Miley tried to say, or that it WAS a warning - and if I would have removed Miley, she would have been REALLY OFFENDED that I only picked her up when Alaska was being a pain in the butt.
So yeah, I'd let them do what they wanted to as long as they didn't show any real aggressions towards eachother or anything.
Of course, I only had them out together for a little while at a time in the beginning, so they didn't have to deal with eachother too much and both got their own time with me too. (After a while I started having them out together for longer and longer, since when Miley was with me, Alaska kept away, and vice versa - so giving them private time with me worked just fine with both of them out in the birdroom too, and when they felt like it, they could interact with eachother too. ...Except they didn't really care about eachother until after 2-3 months or so of that, haha.)



I hope my experiences can be of any sort of help, and I REALLY hope your boys will do just as well as my girls.... Or better!

Yey, this was pretty much what I was hoping for. That's why I was umming and ahhing about clipping because I thought it might be better for them to be able to fly off screaming if they get anxious or annoyed with the other bird. I was just worried I was missing something about my scenario's that would have made it a bad idea to keep them flighted. I'll hold out for more responces but I do feel your right that it'll probably cause more "fight" since they're literal "flight" response has been nuked.

Thanks for the feedback, off to work I go! Will speak to Andrew about it later

 

[riaria]

I agree, clipping might remove the flight response and that would then leave the fight response - much better of they can both fly away from each other when they want to

 

[Mayden]

Well, spoke to Andrew today since we were dancing around each other with who takes what bird to which room for how long for some one and one and he agreed to try them both out as Charlie had been so non aggressive when in the bird room earlier.

So we tried them both out. We brought them into the bedroom which is a rarely used room for the birds except for the odd naptime cuddle. We set out a bunch of toys (although Charlie doesn't know how to play), set up two trays of food with yummies (Charlie won't try yummy fruits etc) and with a little of their harrissons normal and pepper food. We had Merlin burn off some energy first by doing laps around the room before we brought Charlie in because he was being a nippy mister at first.

We sat them on the end of the bed, like a wooden plank type thing - I do have a picture just can't upload it yet!) With the bed itself covered in stuff 'to do'.

We set two dishes in the middle of the plank (I honestly can't think of a better word) and then a bird on each side so they couldn't 'get' to each other without flying but had the option of eating from their own dish.

Well, Merlin is a little piranha at heart, so went straight for the blueberries in the dish. Charlie however just stayed sat on the end of the plank with his back to Merlin, nervously eyeing him up every so often. Merlin was completely non interested with anynthing other than food. Charlie would take a step or two closer, but then turn around again. He didn't touch the food.

After a while Merlin decided to do laps of the room, play atop the door frame, etc. Charlie stayed where he was. After a while of this we decided to put the dishes on the bed again and set them both on the actual duvet. Charlie has 'velcro claws' at the moment and so sticks to any material possible with his claws because his nails are so sharp. So he had a little trouble moving around, he headed over to the plank and tried to climb up. Andrew wondered why he didn't fly, I presume he didn't want to draw too much attention to himself. We let them both do their own thing on the bed and just watched (we had tea towels at the ready!).

One of the toys on the bed was a ten pence piece. A small silver shiney coin for you non-uk folk. Merlin decided he was done wish his dish, went to investigate Charlies (which he wasn't near), spotted the ten pence. Picked it up in his mouth and hobbled over to Charlie. It was the absolute cutest thing I've ever seen in my life, looked like a genuine peace offering from Merlin. Charlie, however, spooked at the last moment and turned around, they both beaked at each other some and flew off. Some more flying around ensued, but not much in regards to 'chasing' just flying and avoiding each other. Then Charlie flew at Merlin who was perched on the tv screen and Merlin flew off, Charlie landed somewhere near the floor. All was fine.

We decided on a time out/intervention. So we picked them both up and interacted with them ourselves, a little 'one on one' between the chaos. Eventually put them both on the bed, you can tell Charlie is an anxious type bird, whereas Merlin is more like a bull in a china shop. He just wants to know who this new guy is, what's his deal and why can't he chew his feathers!

Merlin went to beak at Charlie's tail. Charlie flew off. We decided to give them both some treats independently, fussing over each bird where they can see each other but not interact and call it a day. End it on a 'high' so to speak.

Sounds like there was a lot of aggression in my post, but there wasn't really. A few bluffing bites and some flaps, but all in all, we got a good idea of what to expect in future. Merlin is not being aggressive, just curious, and Charlie is being anxious and weary of Merlin being in his personal space.

All understandable, all can be worked on in time. We'll probably get them out together daily/every other day for 20 minute bursts or so and see how they get on. They're both back in the bird room mimicking each other again, so hurrah. We felt it was quite successful anyway

Will post a picture later of them both on the 'plank' and you can see Charlie's weary body language. (they're on the boyfriends phone!)

Charlie was also quite sleepy, as was Merlin (he gets a real turkey belly after eating) and so we think that they both became a little disgruntled/emotional because of that. But like I said, we're happy so far! No loss of limb or blood etc! Andrew expected feathers flying all over the show etc.

I loved Merlin's 'peace offering' though, I think I honestly have one of the sweetest birds going. He's not one to walk with anything in his mouth as he struggles, but he made the effort to go and show Charlie what he had. Cutie :21:

 

[JerseyWendy]

Not being familiar with Pois, it sounds like the intro went REALLY well, Cat! And Merlin's peace offering with the punce in his beak is just THE cutest visual I've had all day.

 

[Mayden]

Not being familiar with Pois, it sounds like the intro went REALLY well, Cat! And Merlin's peace offering with the punce in his beak is just THE cutest visual I've had all day.

Cutest thing we've ever see him do haha! Merlin isnt all that up on sharing, unless we're sharing with him...! But he made the effort, it was so cute, the hobble, the gift giving... my cutie. :21:

We had them out again after a while as Merlin was getting one on one time with Andrew in the bedroom and Charlie was with me in the birdroom. Andrew went to bring Merlin back into the birdroom to cage him and he just sat down and let Merlin play on his desk. Charlie sat on my monitor semi sleeping and just watched Merlin play. Merlin eventually tried to get onto the monitor, they sat there for a few seconds happily then Merlin went over to Charlie - which he didn't like.

Looks like it's going to be 'boundary' issues more than anything else.

Also, we're a little anxious, because of how Merlin 'walks' we think it might be perceived as a threat. He walks with his beak to the ground (like a crutch) and dashes towards whatever it is he wants to get to. So head/body down and dashing could be seen as aggressive by another bird surely?

We're sure that the more they interact - with Charlie just watching Merlin play - Charlie will begin to stop seeing Merlin as a threat and relax more about him being close. He does only freak out when Merlin is right up close though so, all's incredibly good so far!