My Heart is Breaking Again!

[Birdman666]

Mark, I hope Sally has a better night and has seen the last of amputation. Is the vet fairly confident of an eventual diagnosis and treatment?

With all you and your flock have experienced recently, it is time for some good news for Sally!

My vet is at least, honest. She doesn't give me a line of "we know everything." She said there was a dozen different potential causes for this, and I was able recite them all to her off the top of my head. There are too many variables, and no way of studying it properly. It is MUCH MORE common in amazons.

The lab values still were not in, but I would not be the least bit surprised to learn that she had some sort of underlying infectious process that triggered this. The reason I say this is I have not given her the diazapam yet, but since starting the antibiotics, and pain meds, the bad behaviors have subsided. Certain infections CAN cause this in amazons, and I'm guessing that was the trigger here.

She is a difficult bird to give meds to. It's a two person job.

Since coming home she is VERY clingy... aside from that she is doing A LOT better this morning.

 

[gracebowen]

Mark im glad Sally is better. Praying for a full recovery.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Just like us humans,Mark,an animals mental health/condition plays a major role in the healing process. Sally NEEDS you,ALOT,right now.

I don't personally know you,just thru this awesome forum,and I "know" just how much you care for every one of your flock,and Sally will pick up on that and help her heal faster,and with less pain,being physical or emotional.

Many prayers go out to Sally,and you,and the rest of your 'family"


Jim

 

[Scott]

Than for the update, Mark. Glad Sally is doing a bit better. I hope the lab results will help isolate more closely the culprit and allow for preventative action as best possible.

 

[Birdman666]

Mark im glad Sally is better. Praying for a full recovery.

She'll be missing a toe or toes after this, so she'll have some degree of handicap after this. Thus far it does not seem to be affecting her much.

She is doing better on the meds. Like I say I now suspect it was some sort of infection because the antibiotics have completely stopped the picking at her feet behavior. Some infections can apparently trigger a very irritating "pins and needles" sensation in the feet... and when that happens they pick at their feet the same way as, say, an eckie with toe tap lacks control...

And in the process they can maim themselves.

Sally could have lost her foot because of this! It looks like one toe, and possibly part of another. (Depending on degree of necrosis.)

She is walking around and perching just fine. So under the circumstances this was the best possible outcome.

 

[BIRDIGIRL]

Sounds like you have found the reason for Sallys self destructive behaviour which is good as it means it will not happen again once the infection has cleared up. Im so glad she didnt lose the leg. You learn something new everyday as I had no idea about an infection that could cause a pins and needles sensation and cause them to pick and mutilate themselves...Get Well Soon Sally you are lucky to have such an attentive Dad

 

[GaleriaGila]

What wonderful community support.
Hey, Birdman, you hang in there. The Rickeybird and I are sending Patagonian hugs your way... Sally's too.

 

[coopedup]

i am late to the thread but all I can say is that I appreciate the support you have shown me as a newcomer to the site, and I am thinking of you, Sally and Maggie. I just wish I could do more.

 

[torrap]

She is walking around and perching just fine. So under the circumstances this was the best possible outcome.

Hope it's the end of troubles with Sally.
So glad to hear she is better.
Can only imagine what you are going through. To find your fid with toe missing and bleeding, that is just too much.

Mark, do you know how they get the infection in the first place.
You mentioned that Zons are prone to this infection. That worries me so much. I just wonder if there is a way to prevent it. I am sure if you knew you probably took the precautions, but maybe you know something. Whatever you know will be more than I do...... .

 

[wrench13]

As someone said that is the beauty of this Web board there is so much support knowledge and help available. I hope that she makes a full recovery Mark.

 

[Birdman666]

Hope it's the end of troubles with Sally.
So glad to hear she is better.
Can only imagine what you are going through. To find your fid with toe missing and bleeding, that is just too much.

Mark, do you know how they get the infection in the first place.
You mentioned that Zons are prone to this infection. That worries me so much. I just wonder if there is a way to prevent it. I am sure if you knew you probably took the precautions, but maybe you know something. Whatever you know will be more than I do...... .

Well, no, they are more prone to picking at their feet. AND NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHY, EVEN MY VET ADMITS IT'S AN AREA OF AVIAN MEDICINE THAT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO STUDY...

The theory is that there are certain infections which trigger a "pins and needles" sensation in their feet... (and they are on their feet all the time, so...) and this drives them more or less crazy, so they begin picking at it. Then it scabs up and gets crusty.... which they HATE, so they tear off the scab... and do more damage, and it hurts again. After awhile, they try to relieve the discomfort by amputating their own toes...

THAT'S A THEORY... IT'S ONLY A THEORY. IT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

So the neurological medication that stops the pins and needles sensation generally eliminates the bad behaviors...

IN SALLY'S CASE SHE ISN'T EVEN TAKING IT YET...

THE BAD BEHAVIORS STOPPED WHEN SHE STARTED TAKING A SIGNIFICANT DOSE OF ANTIBIOTICS. WHICH LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF THE BEHAVIOR WITH HER WAS SOME SORT OF INFECTION THAT SHE HAD MASKED, AND I DIDN'T KNOW SHE HAD IT UNTIL SHE WAS GOING CRAZY AND TEARING HER OWN TOES OFF...

This is an "EDUCATED GUESS" on my part.

 

[Birdman666]

Well, Sally is home from the vet. They managed to save the foot, but they had to amputate a toe. They may (probably will) have to do a further amputation depending on how much necrotic tissue there is.

No definitive diagnosis yet for the underlying cause of this.

She's on an antibiotic, pain meds, and diazepam.

Anyone have any experience with amazons on diazepam?

Mark, none of my fids have used diazepam...but my quack < that's what I refer doctors as> subscribed it to me,for my "restless leg syndrome" I experience from time to time..I believe its like valium..to relax the nerves,but don't quote me on this..

Jim

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY IT'S PRESCRIBED. To kill the "pins and needles" neurological sensations that amazons sometimes develop in their feet.

 

[Birdman666]

as someone said that is the beauty of this web board there is so much support knowledge and help available. I hope that she makes a full recovery mark.

if you don't share your knowledge, nobody learns, and the same things happen over and over again.

That's why we do this.

Lesson here: If you have an amazon that starts being skittish and picking at his/her feet... Immediately get the bird to the vet and get a cbc.

If i had done that, and not waited a few days, it might not have progressed to the point where she was amputating her own toes. I didn't recognize this as a warning sign... GET THEE TO AN AVIAN VET ASAP!!!

If you own a zon, and they draw blood on their own toes and it wasn't caught on a toy or something... You know to look. It's probably a neurological problem, or infection!!!

 

[torrap]

I watched a video of someone rubbing coconut oil (organic) at a bird's beak and feet.
I was just wondering if that somehow can help a little if done few times a week. It could make the skin on their feet a bit softer the least. I realize it's not going to cure the infection if it's there already.
I can't even imagine how Simba is going to let me even to attempt to do that....
Mark, thank you so much for sharing with us all.

 

[Scott]

Glad you have this under control, Mark. Seems your attentiveness coupled with a skilled vet saved Sally from great disfigurement.

I suppose there is no way to isolate the source of infection, and more importantly, to have very early insight should it strike again.

 

[Birdman666]

Back to the vet today. Her blood work is ready. She may need another amputation. Still waiting for the test for allergens. She's been doing good, but she still stubbornly resists taking any meds, and it's a struggle getting them in her.

Hope for the best!

 

[Christinenc2000]

Prayers with you Mark.

 

[BIRDIGIRL]

Prayers and well wishes for Sally going your way...hope all ges well at the vet

 

[Birdman666]

Just got home from the Vet...

AS PREDICTED... she had a massive infection. So, there's your most likely cause. When she got on the antibiotics the bad behavior stopped. So, I'm still guessing that was the cause...

NOW THE BAD NEWS. The toe has turned completely black and necrotic. It will need to be amputated. She's scheduled for surgery next Tuesday.

It hurts, but she will recover.

 

[Christinenc2000]

Poor Sally. Mark will this affect her perching much ? I know it will affect it but, how bad ?