Why aren't parrots "domesticated"

[Ann333]

I also agree that personality is genetic. Especially after watching that fox experiment. Silver sage the info on your own flock was extremely interesting and definitely reinforces this idea. Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[SilverSage]

I will try to look up some articles for you on that later. It is the classic "nature vs. nurture" debate, but science is showing more and more correlation between genetics and temperament. In human studies temperament has been shown to be completely solidified before age 1. Now, that is not to say that all of how a person or a I all acts is determined by genes, but a lot of tendencies and predispositions are. Even the fox study shows that, if I remember right. Anyway I will try to look things up later but I unfortunately donut have the time right now.

 

[SilverSage]

I saw the read the fox study many years ago and it is interesting at how much can change in animal when we are working for a single trait-in that case human tolerance.

It is bound to happen in more rare parrots depending on the pool of parrots we have and their genetics.

As far as the common species of parrots, like budgies and cockatiels we may start seeing more purposeful changes. If someone gets lucky and starts getting budgies the size of conures and they can make money of it, it's likely to be done and encouraged by both buyers and other breeders.

Many of us can say how awful it is that their dog breed has such and such wrong because of breeding, but we may of wanted that dog breed because of the way it looked/personality which is also connected to specific health issues. I tend to blame buyers more often than breeders. Breeders wouldn't do it if there was not a market for yet a shorter tail, smaller dog, flatter face ect.

You mean like english budgies? Interesting to note that english budgies are considered much more mellow than American budgies. They have been selectively bred for the characteristics we associate with them, and have a different temperament, yet they are the same species as our American budgies as well as Australian budgies.

 

[Birdman666]

"PET QUALITY" parrots are created. They don't happen by happenstance...

They get pulled from the nest at a young age. They get hand fed and abundance weaned, and are allowed to fledge. In the process, they are taught all sorts of "domestic skills" like step up, no biting, poop training, and come here.

They get handled, and pampered, and they ARE TAUGHT to love people, and that we are not to be feared. We keep them safe, and well fed, and entertained, and loved...

Birds that do not get handled do not stay tame. Birds that are not interacted with tend to revert to their wild instincts...

On some levels it's just that simple.

The "problem birds" are usually birds whose problems were human beings that didn't know how to train them, or meet their needs...

 

[Ann333]

"PET QUALITY" parrots are created. They don't happen by happenstance...

They get pulled from the nest at a young age. They get hand fed and abundance weaned, and are allowed to fledge. In the process, they are taught all sorts of "domestic skills" like step up, no biting, poop training, and come here.

They get handled, and pampered, and they ARE TAUGHT to love people, and that we are not to be feared. We keep them safe, and well fed, and entertained, and loved...

Birds that do not get handled do not stay tame. Birds that are not interacted with tend to revert to their wild instincts...

On some levels it's just that simple.

The "problem birds" are usually birds whose problems were human beings that didn't know how to train them, or meet their needs...

See and that is kind of part of my question. I've read hundreds of stories of dogs that were mistreated or neglected by people, but when someone comes in to rescue them they are still very sweet and loving. Will this ever be the case with parrots you think ?

 

[Birdman666]

In my parrot rescue days I worked with somewhere around 350 birds at any given time... and about 90% of them did.

Including one that was so far gone she was going to be destroyed...

My Red Lored Amazon, Sally.

All living things respond to love and proper care.

 

[Mimsy01]

See and that is kind of part of my question. I've read hundreds of stories of dogs that were mistreated or neglected by people, but when someone comes in to rescue them they are still very sweet and loving. Will this ever be the case with parrots you think ?

I don't really think that is domestication. That has to do with the kind of abuse and the individual personality of the animal. Some abused dogs are dangerous, unfortunately. Some seem to be extremely thankful.

I did ferret rescue for many years. Most ferrets that came in from abuse or hording were surprisingly sweet. However many also had severe issues due to previous abuse. Ferrets are domestic, so it's nothing to do with that. It's a personality thing. I had a group that came from a breeder that was closed due to neglect. The breeder handled them with huge gloves by their tails. They were in crowded feces filled outdoor cages. Me and several fellow rescues got together and each took a group. I had 24 of them. All but 3 once spayed/neutered and medical conditions cared for were able to be adopted easily. Total sweet hearts even though they never had a kind human in their lives prior. Some pressure bite training was all they needed, they just played to hard for human soft skin-but they came around no problem.

The other 3 were dang angry at humans. Took me years to get them to trust me and then they only trusted me and hated everyone else.

Cats are domestic as well-but if you ever tried handling one that did not have any human interaction or only bad human interaction you are not coming out of that without a bite.

I think dogs just having a stronger desire to fit in somewhere so force themselves to overcome previous bad. I don't think parrots will ever act like dogs. That's my way long winded opinion anyways.

 

[Kiwibird]

[
See and that is kind of part of my question. I've read hundreds of stories of dogs that were mistreated or neglected by people, but when someone comes in to rescue them they are still very sweet and loving. Will this ever be the case with parrots you think ?

This is the case with most parrots right now. They just take a little extra effort than a dog and theres another, less frequently considered reason for that. Remember, a parrot is a prey animal who's only defense is to bite (and maybe claw) you. Many are clipped and/or don't know how to fly and/or have atrophied muscles from being locked up, so their #1 defense is gone. Comparatively, a human could easily catch, kill and eat a parrot. They know this. You (in their eyes, especially a prior abused or neglected one) will treat you as though you want to kill and eat them until you prove otherwise. Then they open up and start becoming a companion as trust is earned. Just look at all the stories on here of people who adopt a "mean" parrot who turns out to be a total cuddle bug after a few months-years (depending on how damaged and distrusting of humans he or she was). It happens all the time.

A dog, on the other hand, has a predator drive and most species could kill a human if they wanted (or at least think they could) so your at an equal level there. The dog does not have the same level of fear of you on an instinctual level that a parrot does. I guess in that sense, no, I don't think you'll ever breed the prey drive out of a parrot just like the predator drive has yet to be bred out of dogs (even the really bred down ones).

 

[Ann333]

Wow this has all been very enlightening and eye opening. I have learned A LOT today. So many new ideas and thoughts to consider. Thanks everyone for your input so far!!

 

[Kiwibird]

Wow this has all been very enlightening and eye opening. I have learned A LOT today. So many new ideas and thoughts to consider. Thanks everyone for your input so far!!

Thanks for starting an interesting thread (and opening up an interesting topic of discussion). A lot of us tell new owners parrots are domesticated animals even if they were born in captivity, but rarely explain why. It's interesting to get more in depth details and interesting opinions than normally come up!

 

[JerseyWendy]

What a great thread this is!!

Made me put on my heavy duty reading glasses and look into 'domestication' on a larger level. Quite interesting what I found:
HISTORY OF THE DOMESTICATION OF ANIMALS

Why Can't All Animals Be Domesticated? | Why Can't Zebras Be Domesticated? | Animal Domestication

Animal Domestication: Taming the Wild - Pictures, More From National Geographic Magazine

Avian Welfare Coalition - The True Nature of Parrots

 

[Newbsi]

What a great thread this is!!

Made me put on my heavy duty reading glasses and look into 'domestication' on a larger level. Quite interesting what I found:
HISTORY OF THE DOMESTICATION OF ANIMALS

Why Can't All Animals Be Domesticated? | Why Can't Zebras Be Domesticated? | Animal Domestication

Animal Domestication: Taming the Wild - Pictures, More From National Geographic Magazine

Avian Welfare Coalition - The True Nature of Parrots

I have ADD Wendy... how bout you read it and then just give me the simple answers :21:

 

[JerseyWendy]

I have ADD Wendy... how bout you read it and then just give me the simple answers :21:

How about....NO. :09:

 

[Newbsi]

I have ADD Wendy... how bout you read it and then just give me the simple answers :21:

How about....NO. :09:

It was worth a try... *sighs*:54:

 

[veimar]

Very interesting thread! I just wanna throw in my penny, adding to what Birdman666 had already said. As I have rescued parrots I can say that their personality is not something that's set in stone. A parrot personality can change TREMENDOUSLY depending on the care and interaction the bird receives. Such factors as diet, cage size, overall environment also play a role here. The breeder birds are not social with people because they are bonded to each other, and I know some breeders who manage to keep their birds close to pet quality. So it's very difficult to decide about a birds personality at a given point in time. For example my gcc was a sweet boy, and now when he reached his puberty he became a lil green monster. Or my cockatiel whom I rescued a year ago that was wild and mean, and now is the most tame and cuddly of all my birds. I think parrot personalities are much more complex than cats or dogs, and therefore cannot be considered when breeding.

 

[Ann333]

I learn best and remember more when im writing. Pumpkin helped me take my notes on on of the the useful links posted by JerseyWendy.