Ignoring my conures don't get them to stop screaming

Calorious · Jan 24, 2021

I'm trying to get my conure to stop screaming. However, ignoring them makes them scream louder and louder. Whether they are out or in their cage, they will scream extremely loudly. It's not an issue for me, but it is for my other conures. They get scared, fly around repeatedly, and end up hitting a wall. I hate for that to happen, but I can't seem to get them to stop screaming. I don't know... Is walking past them without eye contact still considered noticing them? They are in my living room. My entire family walks past them. They just scream louder and louder and it just causes the other parrots fear. I don't know what to do anymore.

noodles123 · Jan 24, 2021

How long have you waited it out before saying, "it doesn't work"? It is normal for a behavior on extinction to INCREASE before it decreases. It won't happen overnight and they may scream for hours. Walking past the cage is a technically a form of attention, as it involves increased proximity...But it's possible that this was already working (hence the screaming getting louder-- again that is typical when you cut off reinforcement for a behavior). Another thing you might work on is teaching an alternative to screaming--- let's say they make a noise that DOESN'T drive you crazy, come into the room whenever you hear them making that sound instead.

Also- only ignoring works if they are doing it to get your attention or to get out or something but NOT if they are screaming due to illness, boredom etc.

Make sure they are getting at least 10 hours sleep on a schedule and don't provide them with access to snuggle huts/shadowy spaces.
They should be out a few hours at least daily (unless it is unsafe, and then you need to work on that) and if they have toys but don't use them, you need to literally teach them to play.

Squeekmouse · Jan 24, 2021

There are different kinds of conure screams with different reasons behind them. My conure will give one kinda scream when he is sounding an alarm of danger (usually a repetitive SCREECH SCREECH SCREECH SCREECH SCREECH!) and the best way to get that to stop is to come and see what he is warning about and tell him you are looking for whatever it is, maybe even hold him on your hand to look with him, reassuring him (and thanking him) for keeping a lookout for you. In fact, Yoda has actually alerted us to a few things because of this. Once there was a coyote in the yard, another time it was some guy walking through our backyard. The conure is being your watch-bird and sometimes he'll keep alarming until he knows you are aware of the danger.
Another scream is a contact call, usually a "Screeeeeeeeech! .....(pause)....Screeeeeech!...... (pause)....... Screeeeeeeech!....." which is his way of saying "Where are you? Are you OK? I'm over here!" and sometimes it helps to just poke your head around so he can see you and say hello to him. Yoda will often be quiet for a little while after this, or better yet will be quiet if he can just see where we are.
Just about all the other kinds of screams are just him throwing a tantrum or trying to get attention. Not much can be done about these except to make sure he gets plenty of sleep and plenty of out-of-the-cage time, and otherwise try to ignore it an not reward the tantrum/attention screams.

noodles123 · Jan 24, 2021

I agree mostly, but when they do the contact call is not the time to pop in or they will do it every time (knowing that it gets your attention). That is why it is so important to talk to your bird room-to-room BEFORE the screaming starts.

That is also why I think teaching a preferred noise would be best-- something that doesn't drive you crazy that could replace the majority of those contact calls.

With mine, if I am leaving for somewhere between 1-3 hours, I say "going to the store" each time.

If it is going to be longer (regardless of what I am doing) I say, "going to work" (as that is the time when I am away for 5-8 hours. I used to have this ID badge that I wore, and I would put it on and say that anytime I was planning to be gone for 4+ hours.

Now I just say the phrase "going to work" but I think the visual helped early on.

Calorious · Jan 27, 2021

I'm pretty sure they may be getting my attention when they are in the cage, when they are in the cage, they scream extremely loudly and when any family member walks past (and they recognize them), they instantly jump onto the cage wall where the family member is and tries to get out. When they jump, they stop screaming. Once the family member is out of their sight, they wait a while to see if someone else will walk past, and after 15 seconds of waiting, they go back to screaming. This ignoring thing is something I've been doing for about 2 - 3 months now.
These conures are USUALLY only out at night, and their usual spot usually looks out through a window. A window of nothingness because it's dark outside and I live on the 7th floor so they can really barely see anything on the ground.
I've noticed they tend to scream alot more when they are out of their cage during the afternoon, but it doesn't seem to be a sign of any danger, more of just them getting excited at looking outside the window and seeing other things maybe?
At night they don't scream that much.

Thank you Squeekmouse! I've seen such contact calls before made by one of my conures. They usually annoy other birds in my house kitchen (There are other variants of birds owned by my dad, they aren't parrots [zebra dove, songbird]) all as a flock so that's why they have such calls within my house lol.
As for noodles, it's so cute how your parrot reacts so well to your voice cues! ;3
They have their toys and it's not really anything complicated... They could just push it around and it makes it's own sound (similar to something like a wind chime, but it's not a wind chime)

chris-md · Jan 27, 2021

Co-siging everything noodles has said. Spot on right there.

I'll add that there is a whole other half to the equation, if you can implement it (harder to do if they don't have any whistles/words in their repetoire, only screaming)

So training falls a spectrum, right?:

Punishment(teach what NOT to do) - neutral (absence of direction) - reinforcement (Teach what TO do, positive reinforcement).

Ignoring can help, but its slow - it falls into the neutral territory. You aren't giving any feedback. Parrots learn much faster when you teach them what TO do. It'll go much faster if you can reinforce another sort of vocalization (a whistle, for example).

Scream=Ignore
Whistle=Attention.

Tehy'll pick up quickly that whistles get them the attention they want, while screaming gets nothing. They'll choose the route to get attention.

So yeah, screaming at a dog to "get off" won't do anything = you can't teach them what NOT to do, it doesn't work. You have to teach them what TO do: stay/sit/leave it, etc. Same concept here. Teaching them what TO do can speed up the extinction process noodles is speaking about.

And of course all this falls by the wayside if you have health issues/hormonal issues.

Laurasea · Jan 27, 2021

Agree with all the wonderful advice from our members.

And just layering on the nice posts.

I've had to deal with screaming a few times.
The foundation for preventing and stopping, is to meet their needs. Usually this us increased out if cage time. Increase foraging, increase physical activity. Sometimes an increase of hands on time and your direct attention is needed as well.

A bored parrot in a cage watching the rest of the flock" you and your family " out and about, is going to scream.

Finding ways to increasing out of cage time, even if its indirect, as they are on a play jungle gym with chew stuff and food helps a lot.

Then you will usually see a huge drop in screaming and you can adjust reinforce from. There. A busy active parrot is not screaming.

It can take a multiprong effort to get to the happy spot.

chris-md · Jan 27, 2021

Laurasea said:
Agree with all the wonderful advice from our members.

And just layering on the nice posts.

I've had to deal with screaming a few times.
The foundation for preventing and stopping, is to meet their needs. Usually this us increased out if cage time. Increase foraging, increase physical activity. Sometimes an increase of hands on time and your direct attention is needed as well.

A bored parrot in a cage watching the rest of the flock" you and your family " out and about, is going to scream.

Finding ways to increasing out of cage time, even if its indirect, as they are on a play jungle gym with chew stuff and food helps a lot.

Then you will usually see a huge drop in screaming and you can adjust reinforce from. There. A busy active parrot is not screaming.

It can take a multiprong effort to get to the happy spot.

:respect::respect::respect:

Truth hath been spoken here

Laurasea · Jan 27, 2021

chris-md said:
Laurasea said:

Agree with all the wonderful advice from our members.

And just layering on the nice posts.

I've had to deal with screaming a few times.
The foundation for preventing and stopping, is to meet their needs. Usually this us increased out if cage time. Increase foraging, increase physical activity. Sometimes an increase of hands on time and your direct attention is needed as well.

A bored parrot in a cage watching the rest of the flock" you and your family " out and about, is going to scream.

Finding ways to increasing out of cage time, even if its indirect, as they are on a play jungle gym with chew stuff and food helps a lot.

Then you will usually see a huge drop in screaming and you can adjust reinforce from. There. A busy active parrot is not screaming.

It can take a multiprong effort to get to the happy spot.

Click to expand...

:respect::respect::respect:

Truth hath been spoken here

https://birdsupplies.com/pages/understanding-parrot-behavior-problem-and-solutions

fiddlejen · Jan 27, 2021

QUIETNESS GAME.

(This worked for me, went I went to Work-From-Home, doing Phone Work with a Loud Sun Conure.)

Do you know the children's playground game of Stop And Go? Here's how I recall it: The idea - a bunch of kids one side of an area. Leader-child on the other side. Goal is to reach the leader. But you can only run toward the Leader when their Back is Turned. When they turn back around, you have to STOP.

So. Treat in hand (kinda visible). Start at Opposite Side of Room. Listen for silence. Even a moment of silence to start. Your "GOAL" is to reach your bird and provide bird with Treat. BUT you can Only move Toward her when she is Not screaming.

IF at first birdie doesn't figure it out -- Start standing Right in Front of her Cage, back turned. The moment you hear Silence, turn toward her. She yells - turn Away. She will figure this out quickly!!

After a few moments' silence, give the treat. THEN proceed to starting from further away.

(IF bird is not figuring it out, you can also cue Bird by making soft sounds, and turn toward bird even if sound gets softer, to start with.)

While doing all this, let her Know what you are rewarding for. In a SOFT voice (loud whisper) "Are you being QUIET? QUIET? Are you being QUIET?" -- and then when handing her the treat, "OH, such a GOOD girl, you are being QUIET!" - in a happily emphatic but Quiet voice. So she gets the idea.

Then you progress from there.

CATCH her being quiet and reward her for it. You will need to do this relatively often to reinforce. Make sure it is Not always at the same time or you will create an expectation. When she realizes you are coming -- she will yell. That is OK just turn your back and say, "are you Being QUIET?" etc. She will get-it, that you started to her when she was Not making noise.

This can be done by every member of the family. I did something similar when visiting a friend with a parrot. It only worked while I was right there and they didn't know I did it... but the bird Quickly learned the quietness game when I came to his cage, the reward of the interaction seemed sufficient.

ALSO THEN you need to create some times when LOUDNESS is good.

I did this because of Work-At-Home. So when it is my break time or lunch time I call out, "IT'S BREAK TIME!" and she answers with happy Yelling EEPPS. And I get her and I will EEPP loudly back at her. So there are plenty of times ALLOWED for making noise. Including In the Morning Before Work Time.

Also this is a good way to work with the bird to teach them Softer Sounds. Once you do that, Listen for the Softer sounds, Come in response to Softer Sounds, and they will more likely lower their volume.

It does of course get more complicated due to the interactions with other birds. I don't think you're going to achieve actual periods of actual "silence." BUT I think you can use the Quietness Game to train your various birds to More-Quiet time. (You definitely want to also train them for loudness times as well! Times when they will yell to you, or other family members, and will be rewarded by participatory loudness -- singing or eeping or whatever. GIVE them Cues that will let them know which times are which.)

Also she will still make noise to alert you to something. You want this! IF she is yelling to let you know about something, figure out what it was, and then Praise her for Telling you.

noodles123 · Jan 27, 2021

When they are quiet for 15 seconds, are you giving them the ward of your attention for them getting quiet? It's essential that you reward the desired behavior, but if you are ignoring past 15 and not showing them that they get anything out of stopping screaming, then it won't because they will always be seeking that reinforcement (attention). They "will work for"..ATTENTION. SO whenever they do what you want (even if it's just being quiet, GIVE attention). Start where if they are quiet for 15, they get it. Then after doing that for a week of so, wait to reward w/attention until they are quiet for 20 and so on.

noodles123 · Jan 27, 2021

chris-md said:
Co-siging everything noodles has said. Spot on right there.

I'll add that there is a whole other half to the equation, if you can implement it (harder to do if they don't have any whistles/words in their repetoire, only screaming)

So training falls a spectrum, right?:

Punishment(teach what NOT to do) - neutral (absence of direction) - reinforcement (Teach what TO do, positive reinforcement).

Ignoring can help, but its slow - it falls into the neutral territory. You aren't giving any feedback. Parrots learn much faster when you teach them what TO do. It'll go much faster if you can reinforce another sort of vocalization (a whistle, for example).

Scream=Ignore
Whistle=Attention.

Tehy'll pick up quickly that whistles get them the attention they want, while screaming gets nothing. They'll choose the route to get attention.

So yeah, screaming at a dog to "get off" won't do anything = you can't teach them what NOT to do, it doesn't work. You have to teach them what TO do: stay/sit/leave it, etc. Same concept here. Teaching them what TO do can speed up the extinction process noodles is speaking about.

And of course all this falls by the wayside if you have health issues/hormonal issues.

I'm a total loser and an ABA nerd, so I have to say this---
punishment is the addition of something aversive on top of the natural consequences from the event. A lack of reinforcement is not punishment...even if the bird gets mad because that same behavior got reinforcement in the past, and feel frustrated, withdrawing a response is not a punishment.

Reinforcement is anything that increases behavior and we can reinforce good or bad behaviors (negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement both increase behavior, and negative doesn't mean bad--- it means that something the bird/kid hates was removed as a result of them doing something good--- eg., if you do your homework, you don't have to take a final at the end of the semester ---negative comes from the REMOVAL of the aversive stimuli (the test) but it's a good thing for the person experiencing it (thus, increasing homework completion)..or, if you eat your chicken, you can skip the peas (negative reinforcement).

PUNISHMENT- is added on top of that..SO, ignoring a bird or not providing reinforcement for a undesired behavior isn't punishment. Punishment happens on top of everything else-- so, lets say your bird scream for 10 hours---the ignoring is not a punishment. Punishment would be like if you ignored until it stopped and then took away a favorite toy or something (which would be silly, as the screaming had nothing to do with toys), or spanked a child child after a fit (it's a new and often unrelated layer that makes things even more unpleasant). Punishment works poorly for birds...It is debatable with kids but it honestly depends on the situation and child.

A lot of people think time-out is a punishment (and try to use it that way) but the intention behind time-out was removal from reinforcement within the environment. So...time-out should only be used with kids who have attitudes that are stemming from the audiences reaction.

chris-md · Jan 28, 2021

LOL! I was trying to avoid getting too far in the weeds, but yes, all true.

Calorious · Jan 29, 2021

Thank you so much for all the responses. I read through all of them thoroughly. I'm now trying to give them attention when they are quiet. After doing this 2 - 3 times they became totally silent. Does this mean I have to always give them attention whenever they are quiet? They are usually in the living room and I'm in my own room... I can't really go on to find them everytime they are silent (and now they are constantly silent, like even now).

I also realised they are really only noisy when they hear external noises (such as when music comes out from my room)

noodles123 · Jan 29, 2021

Calorious said:
Thank you so much for all the responses. I read through all of them thoroughly. I'm now trying to give them attention when they are quiet. After doing this 2 - 3 times they became totally silent. Does this mean I have to always give them attention whenever they are quiet? They are usually in the living room and I'm in my own room... I can't really go on to find them everytime they are silent (and now they are constantly silent, like even now).

I also realised they are really only noisy when they hear external noises (such as when music comes out from my room)

initially, you want to wait until they are quiet for 15 s, and then come in and whisper "thanks for getting quiet" etc etc. You don't have to do it every time, just initially so that they know that it works. Also, use key phrases so they understand where you are going etc- helps them get a better idea of how long u might be gone

plumsmum2005 · Jan 29, 2021

My Patagonian was pretty darn noisy, but in as few words as possible all he needed was contact with me every so often. We become their flock. Anyway it worked and his noise reduced loads.

Calorious · Jan 29, 2021

Thank you noodles for the clarification!

Ooo, thank you plumsum

Tman · Jan 29, 2021

Let me add one more thought. So far everything is spot on. But there is one more thing to consider, that is that it is to quite. Quite means danger, so your little guy is making noise to let you know everything is ok
If you have a CD player put some soft instrumental music on and see is that might help. So times my guys will have a bug up there butt and start to go nuts. I put on some native American flute music on and all is good.

noodles123 · Jan 29, 2021

Tman said:
Let me add one more thought. So far everything is spot on. But there is one more thing to consider, that is that it is to quite. Quite means danger, so your little guy is making noise to let you know everything is ok
If you have a CD player put some soft instrumental music on and see is that might help. So times my guys will have a bug up there butt and start to go nuts. I put on some native American flute music on and all is good.

Yeah-- agreed with this too, but don't pick something like metal music....You want to make sure it is something your bird likes (they do have preferences about that sort of thing, as I am sure you know.)

They WILL still scream, but if you are meeting all of their social/emotional needs etc and IF the screaming is an attention seeking behavior that has been reinforced, ignoring it will eventually decrease it. They will still scream...If they don't stop (over time--- not the first time you ignore, but over a few weeks of waiting them out etc) then it may be that they are screaming for some reason other than attention. Just a reminder though- when you start ignoring a behavior that has worked, the behavior always gets worse before improving, so you must maintain your course if you decide to ignore a behavior, or you basically turn yourself into a reinforcement slot machine (give in, and your bird learns that it just has to scream louder and longer and you will eventually react).

fiddlejen · Jan 29, 2021

Tman said:
Let me add one more thought. So far everything is spot on. But there is one more thing to consider, that is that it is to quite. Quite means danger, so your little guy is making noise to let you know everything is ok
If you have a CD player put some soft instrumental music on and see is that might help. So times my guys will have a bug up there butt and start to go nuts. I put on some native American flute music on and all is good.

I go further with this and reserve certain types of music for certain meanings. I actually use youtube (thru the roku) for most of it.

Originally:
Leaving for work - tv Off, CLASSICAL RADIO on. This was because, although I dont hate classical... I apparently dislike it somewhat; if it is on for a little while, i will just reach and turn it Off. So, I Never Played Classical if I was home. Also only turned on for Work -- in other words, Classical music means I will be Gone for More than 8 hours.

At home, puttering around - various types of relaxing or fast-paced background music on youtube with various backgrounds. OR maybe I'm watching something, etc.

Going Out for Errands. Or, maybe, still in the house but I might be in-n-out of their room, downstairs, kitchen for long times, etc. AQUARIUM Videos with music on Youtube, long-running with music.

I still do these, except, no leaving 8+ hours to go to work. (So, no Classical.) When working at home, I put on a playlist of Budgie Videos which Jefferson adores. At night I put on videos of sleep-sounds. (when I come in the room, I switch it to tv - then when I go to bed, back to sleep-sounds.)

I really think this contributes to their happiness. Birds are little Control Freaks, and calming background noises, that tell them what's going on, are really helpful.

Ignoring my conures don't get them to stop screaming

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