New Member Intro and Question: Clipping wings vs. Full Flight

Good afternoon everyone. I have a 3 month old sun conure named Rio. It's my first time raising a baby bird. We got him when he was about 3 weeks old. We were hand feeding until about 2 weeks ago and he started not wanting the formula anymore (he basically weaned himself). A couple of weeks ago we boarded him at a pet store for one night while we were away and the owner of the store decided to clip his wings since he apparently flew out of the bin they had him in. Since then the feathers are starting to grow back and he is almost in full flight. So now the debate...should we continue to let him fly or should we keep clipping him? I enjoy watching him fly over to us from his cage and vice versa but I am afraid of losing him if someone opens a door or something. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know there is no right answer its all a matter of preference but I want to make sure Rio stays happy.

Welcome to the forums.....assuming you have read/heard about the debate of clipping vs not clipping, but an answer from us is not that easy, because we have no idea of the environment your home offers your feathered friend.....what might be safe in your home may not be safe in mine.....

If it has not already begun, within the next few weeks you might see a change in your sweet little bundle of feathers.....nippiness, temper tantrums, etc., I might be inclined to study up on touch training and/or clicker training.....and.....begin training both your bird and yourself.....think of unruly preschool children wrapped in yellow & green feathers.....

Restricting their flight (clipping) will usually get you their undivided attention during lessons, while leaving a bird flighted would leave it the opportunity of flying off to some more interesting endeavor.....

The longer they are left to their own devices, in their environment/home, before training, the harder it might be to bring them under your wing, so to speak (pun intended).....then to, at their next moult, their trimmed feathers will be back, good as new.....assuming a proper clip to begin with.....

Good luck.....

I have the same delema here....
I know the most important thing for many birds is to LEARN to fly. That's how they get their self confidence. But it's really up to you from that point on, I think.
My Amazon is not clipped, so I worry about her when I am stepping out of the house to the patio. She is overweight and didn't have a lot of flight time before (I think), so she is going down slowly when she wants to fly...., but she is getting better and better every day. The other day she took off, made a turn and ended up in another room....
Thank you for asking this question...I'll be checking this thread also....

My GCC is clipped but can easily make it from its cage to the perch to me if I'm in the living room.

You could also do a half clip. Only take the first 3 primary feathers. He should still be able to fly just not to the full extent of a flighted bird.

There is no doubt that a fully flighted bird is a generally healthier(more fit) bird and benefits greatly. But it's not always right for the humans involved.

Fully flighted birds carry a lot of risk, and you need to do training. Recall training is a must, and is easiest done with a younger bird. I have a fully flighted galah cockatoo who is at least 20 years old, she is unreliable at recall and it is something I struggle with. Many people say the risk of a fully flighted bird is that they might fly out a open door. This is a true risk, but I find the benefits of being able to train a parrot to fly well, and recall to you are much greater. I know that if Rosie ever got out I have a 50% chance of her doing a U-turn flight and coming back to me. Another thing is, a clipped bird who flies away will be at a great disadvantage to hawks, cats, and various wild animals. A fully flighted bird will be able to fly away from danger.

In my opinion one of the coolest things about fully flighted birds is being able to take mid flight photos


A clipped parrot offers some safety and security. Think carefully about your home and decide if it is really safe for a flying parrot. The biggest risk will be doors, I keep both of my fids in my room upstairs and my door is closed most of the day. I take them downstairs when the situation is right and I know the doors won't be opened often if at all. Think carefully, you are your birds guardian and only you can make the decision on what is write or wrong when it comes to clipping

Weco,

Thank you for responding. Right now we have a large 1 bedroom apartment, we have one large sliding glass door which is covered in blinds and he has not flown into it which was one of my biggest fears when he started flying. He is really coordinated, he can fly from my living room into the bedroom going around the corners like nothing. He is definitely still a sweet bird and I would like to keep him that way. (Wishful thinking I know). We have started training, he was starting to nip at my clothes and my nails but we have taught him not to do that and he doesn't anymore for the most part. He is awesome at stepping up and stepping down and can do it in English and Spanish lol. He knows when I tell him to go to his cage he flies right to it (Sometimes he flies right back, sometimes he stays at his cage) He can get rowdy in the morning and will not stop screaming and pacing once we uncover the cage. It's not obnoxious screaming yet but you can hear the feverish pacing back and forth until one of us takes him out.

My mom had a Quaker parrot for 8 years and she flew away a couple of weeks ago because she got out of her cage without supervision. We are still suffering the loss of her and I can't imagine going through the same thing with our little Rio which is why I am even considering clipping. There's nothing too dangerous in our apartment. When I am cooking or cleaning I keep him in his cage to make sure he doesn't get hurt. We let him out only when one of us is around to keep a close eye on him.

FreddyCheeks - I like your idea of partial clipping. I may do that instead of a full fledge clipping and see how it goes.

Thanks!

Copperarabian - you made a good point that by partial clipping if he ever did get away he would have less of a chance to survive outside. I rarely take Rio out he is kept indoors 95% of the time. He is also kept on the upstairs level and the front door is downstairs so it would be very difficult for him to get out unless someone brought him down. But it would be nice to see him fully flighted and in his full potential! AHH this is harder than I thought!

I'm just gonna lay it out there, i'm in the clipping is almost always bad camp. I don't understand why if someone wants a pet that can't fly they get a bird. Some things to consider:

Clipped birds can still fly. There are pics and threads on this forum talking about it. This means a clipped bird can still jump fly away outside, fly into a boiling pot of hot water, etc.

If a clipped bird is really to the point that it cannot fly period, there's a good chance its wings muscles have atrophed. It won't be able to fall safely, will probably be out of shape, and could have other health issues.

Clipping to force an animal to become dependant on you...I mean, we don't hobble dogs to make them dependent on us. Training a flighted bird isn't that much more difficult than a clipped bird, and depending on the bird can be easier because it gives them confidence knowing they can escape if they have to.


I'm sorry your family lost the Quaker, but it wasn't lost because it could fly, it was lost because someone left a door open. Also, was your bird fledged properly before it was clipped? (i would have been furious if someone clipped my bird without asking btw)

Long story short I would absolutely recommend that you clip. I would let the bird fledge and get the confidence that goes along with flight but then clip. I had a horrible experience with all of my flock that were flighted years ago. I posted the entire story here awhile back. I lost all of my birds due to them being flighted and it broke my heart. I still have dreams about it where I wake up in tears. It's just too risky. So many thi gs could happen. Just my personal opinion...

Khaiga- That's why I am having a hard time with the whole idea of clipping. I love watching him fly, I just don't want to lose him. And at the moment I wasn't that upset about the clipping, and they are halfway grown back. It's too late to get angry.

I currently have a 19 year old flighted mitred conure and a 3 year old clipped red throated conure. I haven't had the RTC for very long and it frustrates both me and her that she's clipped! She is a hands off bird that isn't comfortable leaving her cage... but she loves scritches, and if you can encourage her to (not easily), she will climb down the cage to your shoulder. I think we'd make a lot more progress in taming and training if she was flighted and had confidence vs being clipped.


Here's some reasons for clipping, and what I feel about it.

1. Training
   • Many people believe that you can't tame/train a flighted parrot (or that it's very difficult), and that you *must* make the parrot depend on you. False info. If you train right, flighted parrots can be trained just as easy as clipped parrots! Clipping them removes the *CHOICE* for them to be with you or not and can force a learned helplessness - no matter what they do, they have no choice in the final outcome. This may result in birds that become aggressive because they refuse to be "submissive" to their owners. (this goes back to dominance theory)
2. Behavior
   • Some birds are more difficult to handle when flighted. Rather than train the bird to act appropriately when asked, people clip instead. They don't feel as if a parrot will learn when flighted so must remain clipped. Some feel that when parrots are flighted and they have an "attitude" that it's because the parrot is trying to "boss them around" or "dominate" them. This is just false and has nothing to do with a parrot trying to misbehave or to "dominate" a person, and all to do with training.
3. Getting lost
   • As stated previously, even clipped parrots can still get lost! And, as clipped, they are in higher danger to predators and dangers on the ground. Being clipped, they'll have less confidence to fly to safety, or wont know how to fly down. A properly flighted parrot should be able to avoid many dangers, and if trained correctly, should know how to fly down (a *VERY IMPORTANT* skill to know! Yes, parrots can be 'afraid of heights'!), and perhaps know how to return to an owner.
4. Unsafe
   • There can be a lot of dangers in having a flighted parrot. The same can be said for clipped birds. Flighted parrots can get to things that they shouldn't be chewing on, or may knock down items that could break after falling. Clipped parrots are often stuck near the ground and may chew on things down there (i.e. cords). Granted, so could a flighted parrot! Owners can take steps to 'bird-proof' their home as well as their doors and windows. All windows must have screens on them, make a double entry for the doors, or cover the doors with something that blocks immediate access to them.
5. Aggression
   • Some birds can be aggressive towards other animals and/or humans. For the safety of everyone involved, it may be best to clip the bird to prevent 'fly by attacks' or out right attacks. This, too, can be trained out of a bird, but it can take several months, if not weeks, of training to get a parrot to stop being aggressive.

Here's one idea to bird-safe a door.
Front door bird security! - a set on Flickr (video below)



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d5Jx-dvux0"]Bird-proofing the front door - YouTube[/ame]




And you could always do something like a safety catch for an aviary on the other side of the door.
BIRDCAGES4LESS.com: Single Safety Catch

This link shows an inside version of a security cage for a warehouse. It's the same idea, only you may have the 'security cage' on the outside of the house rather than on the inside - although I'm sure it could work either way!
Driver Access Cages Contain Warehouse Visitors [Case Study]


And some links you may be interested in.

Should you clip your parrot
Flighted Parrots - Thinking on the Wing by Steve Hartman ***The Parrot University
Lara Joseph | An avid avian training, behavior, and enrichment enthusiast.
Living with Flighted parrots
flychomperfly's channel - YouTube (please take a look through this users videos - they help to dispel some common myths of flying parrots!)


And one last one... it may be a bit hard to read, but it can also be an eye-opener!
Ethical, Moral & Spiritual Considerations of Companion Parrot Care




I do understand that there are some legitimate reasons for clipping, but the majority of them I feel are ill thought out and done through ignorance/lack of training rather than researched and thought out prior to making an *informed* decision. What many people fail to realize is that there are also dangers in clipping a parrot, and one of the links I've provided goes over some of those dangers.

This is a debated subject that's been discussed countless times. I personally prefer not to clip but I will clip if I must. And I also clip to train for the new owners as they are easier to handle then an unclipped bird.

Personally I have clipped 100's of birds and IF you clip them properly they can NOT fly! I have tested on small and large parrots. That means you have to be careful where they land so they don't hurt themselves. I recommend clipping especially when your in a apartment situation where someone could come in while the bird is out, out he goes. Plus people with children! Or if you like taking your bird outside.

Think of it this way, most of them will NOT survive outside unless they were being saved by someone and your most likely will never retrieve the bird back ever again. By keeping them clipped you have a peace of mind that you wouldn't have to worry about forgetting your bird is on your shoulder while opening the door to walk outside, my friend lost her bird that way and it froze outside that very night and several days after that, they're not equipped to deal with freeing temperature without being acclimated to it. Diseases they may catch and such from being outside and eating god knows what, since they're not your every day local specie birds, they don't know what to eat or where to find food. So yea I must say, we have to be a bit selfish to do the clipping so we can keep them safe like parronts.

Like I've said from the beginning I personally prefer not to clip so none of my pet birds are clipped. Part of the con part is I find a lot of parrots that did not start with a chewing problem will develop a feather chewing problem after they're clipped. Some are fine but I find some are not.

After all, it is a personal choice on what you decide to do, no matter which way you go you can't please everyone. You just need to see what you think is best for you and your fid.