Alexandrine is biting till it bleeds

Timgeorgr

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Sep 24, 2012
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Hi there I'm new to this forum or any forum as a matter of fact. I need some help and advice.

Ten months ago I got an alexandrine parrot which was most likely around 13- 20 months old. What I first got it, it was really aggressive; it used to bit so hard and with such force that my fingers and hand would bleed, scar up and then he would bite off the scab; a vicious painful cycle. Its been ten months now and I still cannot put my hands in the cage. ( I asked a question about him when I first got him, and someone suggested I use a stick to get him on it and then take him out of the cage.) I've been doing that ever since and that's the only way I can get him out of the cage. When I do finally get him out of the cage, and go to pet him he will attack my hand. He doesn't like other people either. His cage (its a big cage, so I know it's not a living space issue) is in the living room ( I figured he will get used to people this way, since there's a lot of people in my family). He doesn't let others pet him or hold him. When you try to pet him, his pupils will shrink and he will bob he head up and down and then attack. I've been working with him about six days a week for a few hours a day ( with resting periods; that's what I was told to do) so far for ten months and he is still biting. I can pet him but he will still bite ( which makes no sense). I'm asking this question because I'm getting this little feeling that I want to give up, but I really don't want to. As crazy as this sounds I like this bird; I love animals. I feel like if I give up on him, he wouldn't get a nice home and it will be hanging over my conscience for a very long time. I need some advice, new inspiration. Thank you very much.
 

khaiqha

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Sep 19, 2012
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Lewisville, TX
Parrots
Alexandrine Ringneck,
about to be getting a Jardine's
Hi, I'm sorry you're having issues with your Alex.

Would you mind describing your training process? If you could post a youtube video, that would be even better.

From what I've gathered about your situation, my first recommendation would be to stop petting your bird. Try as you might, patience alone won't often change a bird's behavior.

Probably the first thing you should work on is getting your bird to step up and accept treats from your hand. I recommend target training to do this.
 
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Timgeorgr

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Sep 24, 2012
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My training process goes as follows:
I would make sure he has had breakfast. Then I will open the cage, say the command "up" and he will go on the stick. (He knows step up). Then immediately as he is out of the cage, while he is on the stick he will poop. It doesn't matter what time of day, who is there, he will poop on the floor as soon as he is out of the cage. After that I will put him on the play gym which is on the coffee table and let him be for about 2mins. I will talk to him and describe what we will be going to do. I will then turn on the timer app for 15mins. During this 15 mins I will get him on my hand and then try to get my other hand as close to him as possible. He will sit in my left hand, but when my right hand goes to pet him, he will attack the right hand. During this time I'm talking to him. I would praise him if he doesn't bite and ignore him if he does. ( sometimes I'm biting my tongue because it hurts soooo much, but I don't want him to know that I'm phased by it. This goes on until the timer goes off. There is 5 minute break and then I repeat the process. After about 2 or 3 times i will have him on the play gym and just have him hangong around and about. If he's on the stick or on my hand he wouldn't let anyone come close to him. His pupils will dialate and and he will attack. You cannot pass his cage without him trying to attack someone through his cage. We all love him , but we want him to stop acting this way. Ive done a lot of online research, talked to multiple pet store workers and owners, and tried what they had told me and barely anything worked. I don't know what else to do, Any suggestions? How do I get him to do target training? He loves apples and nuts how do I get him to accept these as treats. He only eats it why it's in his food dish which is in his cage.
 
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MonicaMc

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Sep 12, 2012
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Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
Look into clicker training and positive reinforcement.

From what I'm reading, every experience your alex has had with people has been a negative experience, and he's expressing to you the only way he knows how - eyes pinning, displaying, and when you still ignore him, a bite. I agree with the previous poster, stop petting him. I know how hard that may be, but he's not enjoying the experience.

I suggest getting Barbara Heidenreich's training videos as well as her understanding parrot behavior video to better learn how to not only understand your alex, but how to work with him. You can also find great material from behaviorists/trainers such as Melinda Johnson, Susan Friedman and Karen Pryor.

For a head start, here's a few of blogs that may be worth reading through!
Lara Joseph
Best in Flock – Parrot Blog
Living With Parrots Cage Free

Key words such as "positive reinforcement", "clicker training", "step up" etc may help you locate the particular posts that may help you the best.

And a good article on biting.
RP - Biting
 

coral3

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Aug 4, 2012
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Australia
Parrots
'Ringo' - alexandrine, hatched 2012 ~ 'Prinny' - princess parrot, 1992-2012 RIP
If there are no rewards for correct behaviour during your training sessions then there's really no incentive for him to want to learn anything.

If your bird won't accept reward treats from your hand, try putting them in a small food bowl and let him take one out of that each time he does the right thing.
 
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Ian

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Sep 10, 2012
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Hi,

I'm sorry if I'm asking a question that you you covered ages ago but 'feral' biting Alexandrines are actually pretty rare. On the other hand I have seen loads of examples of 'net caught' and aivary Indian Ringnecks (IRN) which can do huge damage with their very sharp beaks. They pretty much look the same - does yours have red patches on the wing?

I adopted a feral IRN and kept her for a year, what you are going through is a nightmare. I had to remove her to protect my other birds.
 

dragonlady2

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Oct 3, 2010
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Canada
Parrots
Eclectus-Willy, Alexandrine-Oliver, Two Barrabands -Joey and Peewee, Plumhead-Peanut, Senegal-Mookie, Australian King-Bella, Peachfront conure-Peachygirl, Crimson belly conure-Pepper, Parrotlette
Alex's don't normally like to be "petted". I would just stick to having him step up and off without biting and let him lead you to where he is comfortable. I can't pet my Alex's, but I am okay with it. I have other birds that give me the petting and cuddling if I want it and they are in the mood, lol!
 

BradGC

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Jul 31, 2012
107
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Gold Coast, Australia
Parrots
Alexandrine parakeet
Yea Alex's don't like petting at all. Our alex will reluctantly let me pet him, but he gives his noise that he does when he doesn't like something, kinda like" nah-uh".

Why don't you just get him out on your hand while you watch TV for a while... then after that praise him and give him treats, and repeat until he's comfortable with it. After that, try get him on your shoulder or knee and just chill out with him.

Make him know that he can relax with you without hands interfering with him.

Good luck
 

Boysmom

Member
Nov 17, 2011
686
11
Atlanta, Georgia
Parrots
Ruby- Solomans Island Grand Eclectus ***
Flora- Panama Amazon
My Alex is new to our home ( less than a week ). He allows us to remove him from cage with a perch, and then loves to sit on my sons shoulder. He doesnt bite at all while on shoulder, but he doesnt want to be touched. He will give kisses and talks up a storm. He was hand tame for the previous owner, but lived outside, so I'm not sure how much he was handled. I am teaching him to stay on the java tree when placed there. Each time he flies off I use the perch to replace him then i reward him if he stays put. Yesterday he went to our homeschool classroom and sat on Max's shoulder during class. He is such a monkey, he would walk down Max's arm to try to steal his pencil out of his hand. My advice would be to allow him the things he enjoys to do with you, offer your hand if he pins his eyes, use a perch then praise him for any improvement. Hands are a scary thing to a bird who hasnt build the bond of trust. I notice Buddy watches our hands intently. He does accept treats from our hands, start with that, then slowly while he is distracted eating the treat from the perch you hold him on, slowly try to touch his foot. If he allows that praise and treat again. He will learn to trust your hands over time, but I agree stop trying to pet him if he doesnt like it.
 
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Timgeorgr

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Sep 24, 2012
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Thank you guys very much for the replies!
He has a red patch on each wing. Also a little note, he has 3 toes on his left foot and 4 toes on his right foot. I'm not sure if he was abused or he was born that way. ( I got him from someone I know (they wouldnt do anything to harm him, they love animals) and they bought him that way from a breeder)
Quick question. how do I get him to eat treats outside of the cage since he only eats when he's inside the cage.
 

Boysmom

Member
Nov 17, 2011
686
11
Atlanta, Georgia
Parrots
Ruby- Solomans Island Grand Eclectus ***
Flora- Panama Amazon
You will have to offer treats when he is hungry. If they arent hungry they have no reason to accept food from you. A treat should be something he never receives inside his cage as food.
 

BradGC

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Jul 31, 2012
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Gold Coast, Australia
Parrots
Alexandrine parakeet
Also, they'll usually only eat treats when they're relaxed , if they're angry and stressed, they won't eat. How long does he spend on or out of his cage on his own? Maybe let him sit on the cage for a long time while you're around but not absolutely focussing on him. Do your own daily activities while he's watching you, then come back n see if he wants a treat.

Maybe when he's out of the cage he's too smothered in attention and he doesn't feel like eating
 
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Timgeorgr

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He spends about the same time in the cage as he spends outside of the cage. Today I started click/touch training with him. I didn't know what his favorite treats were so I removed his regular daily foods ( chopped apples, unshelled nuts, celery, lettuce, and parrot mix) and I placed in all kinds of treats. Each treat was in a separate dish, these include: chopped peanuts, sun flower seeds, cooked pasta, uncooked pasta, carrots, peas, and uncooked ziti pasta filled with peanut butter. After about 10 minutes he started inspecting each one; he then took one of the pasta filled with peanut butter, went on the highest perch and started munching away. To my surprise, the peanut butter won; he only ate the peanut butter and left the shell empty. We did three 8 minute touch training sessions with 2minutes break in between and he was really motivated by the peanut butter. I'm really happy with what we did today.
 
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RedFeather

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Sep 22, 2012
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It sounds like your constant touching is stressing him out and he is trying to tell you that. He bites because you're not listening to what he is trying to tell you and by not listening you are reinforcing for him that he can't trust you. Bribing him with peanut butter won't make him trust you and climbing away from you to the highest perch to eat it was his way of moving somewhere he feels safe.

I adopted an adult male Alexandrine who had been abused and neglected for most of his life (about 15 years at that point). Kado could not be picked up without biting and was very cage aggressive. I spent the first few months just sitting near him and talking to him, then letting him spend time with me on my arm, shoulder or chair back. I didn't push him into showing signs of stress like threatening or biting once he stepped up out of the cage. Eventually, he came to trust me and we expanded into trick training. All that time he was coming to trust me and became quite physically affectionate so I gently stroked my hand down his back. He didn't tense or show signs of stress, and after that he became a total snugglemuffin.

I think you are pushing this bird into doing things he isn't comfortable with too quickly and it is undermining your hope to get him to trust you. Go back to the basics of building trust and show him that you are a creature that he wants to be around. If he doesn't like to be petted, why would you do it? Just because you want to? Remember, he isn't a dog or cat and petting is a foreign concept to most birds. Kado came to like it, but only with the direction of his feathers, and it was his decision to allow it, I didn't force him or try to train him to allow it. It was a side effect of mutual trust, respect and enjoyment of each other. After the first month, Kado never bit me again and would allow me to do anything with him.

Good luck, and remember that these birds have long lifespans, so there is no rush.
 

Marlin

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Sep 21, 2013
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Canton Beach Central Coast NSW Australia
Parrots
I have a 9 Month old IRN parakeet and will be getting a Alexandrine Parakeet at the end of November 2013
Discipline
your bird must understand that there are clear boundaries of acceptable behaviour. the same techniques used to control the behaviour of children should be used to train your bird Love, joy, routine and consistency are essential ingredients of the learning, training and discipline process
as your bird matures and becomes a more independent thinker it will try to dominate your control over its activities. this is a natural response to parrot adolescence and adulthood and it's important for you to maintain dominance at this stage. in nature the pecking order is constantly challenged. therefore in the home you must also confirm your superiority. Discipline of unruly parrots is achieved through a positive and negative reward system.

for example if your parrot starts to scream, put the parrot to bed early.
Bad behaviour must receive a negative reward.

if the parrot goes to the cage when told, they are rewarded with a treat.
good behaviour must receive a positive reward.

the solitude of the cage/room may be necessary for biting birds.
and solitude means everyone leaves the room and after two or three minutes everyone returns repeat as necessary. the bird will soon realize that, "if I bite everyone (the flock) leaves"
 

MonicaMc

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
7,960
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Parrots
Mitred Conure - Charlie 1994;
Cockatiel - Casey 2001;
Wild Caught ARN - Sylphie 2013
If the word "discipline" comes from the word "disciple" and a disciple is a student, pupil or follower of another, therefore it means to "teach" or to "train"... As such, someone who has good discipline is someone who has good training in whatever they follow.

Self-discipline doesn't mean to punish oneself, but to have good willpower and persistence in order to achieve a greater goal.



So........ why are we talking about punishment rather than teaching?
 

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