Bolivian Blue and Gold Macaw Subspecies

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

I adopted a B&G Macaw a few months from an owner who could not longer care for him. He's significantly bigger than my fiancée's B&G and the blue is much darker has no green/turquoise tint to it. Is there any way to tell if he's a Bolivian B&G? Do you guys believe that it is a real subspecies or is it just a variance within an individual?

 

[Terry57]

Bumping you back up Hopefully one of our Mac people will be able to help.

 

[SailBoat]

I am no MAC expert, but have identified many an Amazon over the years. Web Search Bolivian Blue & Gold Macaw and there will be several links to defining that specific MAC.

The process of using that kind of tool is to approach it as what your MAC does not match with the definition. The greater the match the more likely, the less the match the more likely it is not.

 

[Anansi]

Wow. That is indeed a big boy for a B&G!

I'm also waiting for one of our mac experts to chime in. I'll be watching with great interest.

 

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

I haven't had any luck tracing his leg band back to a breeder so I'm hoping someone here knows something!

Edit: Uploaded more photos of him and myself. Hopefully it gives you a better idea on size.

 

[Krieng]

I think it is not a subspecies. It is just kind of richer color and bigger size that still not enough to classify as subspecies but I am not expert. Bolivians B&G are more beautiful. I search pictures/video of Bolivians B&G in nature & sanctuary and yes they are richer in color than Brazilian B&G. Their chest is not yellow but orange and have darker blue. Your are Bolivians. I have one and still cannot find another one in pet shops of my area so far.

 

[SilleIN]

To my knowledge there are no acknowledged sub-species of B&G's.

To be honest I do not know if the larger B&G is from Bolivia. I do know that, what goes as "Bolivian Scarlets" originates from Northeastern Brazil, but they arrived in the USA by way of Bolivia due there were little trade restrictions in Bolivia.

It is possible the same thing applies to the "Bolivian B&G"

 

[Loko]

Ive read quite a few things about Macaw subspecies and I think whether or not they are officially a subspecies isnt so important and more to do with taxonomic technicalities. The difference does exist. Apparantly they are actually from Bolivia too. I think that this "subspecies" or abberant or whatever you want to call it definitely does have slight genetic difference, like whatever gene determines size, and I would assume they came about from a selective breeding "survival of the fittest" situation. B&Gs in this region may have been isolated and for whatever reason the bigger birds more successfully survived and reproduced, allowing the "big" gene to be passed on and common in this area. Over time, and with the big birds having the most success, they would eventually become the norm in that area. Whether or not that means it is a subspecies or not would come down to what is required to be a true subspecies and if they fit that category. Continual breeding of large birds would produce a bloodline of large birds. If they are not a true subspecies, it may however be a good example and living representation of *how* subspecies form through gradual evolution via selective breeding.. once they pass a line genetically where there are distinctive differences, they can be official. Just my speculation.

Edit:forgot to mention, theres another disputed sub species known as the giant greenwing, which can be as large or larger than a hyacinth. Its possible the same theory goes for that as well.

 

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

So it's more of a variation in the breed that people have named than an actual subspecies? My research on Bolivian B&Gs has been fairly unsuccessful, and tracking down his breeder even more so. I'm really just curious, and would like to know as much as I can about him.

I take it the consensus is that he's larger than the average b&g? I don't have a gram scale yet but will be getting one soon.

 

[Loko]

Well Im not a taxonimist or geneticist but I would assume that the "Bolivian" BGs are very similar to regular BGs genetically. If my theory is at all right then I think its more of a mutation of the gene that regulates growth, which became widespread in an isolated population. Whether thats considered a subspecies or just an anomaly, would depend on opinion and specifically how different they are genetically.

 

[SilleIN]

Well Im not a taxonimist or geneticist but I would assume that the "Bolivian" BGs are very similar to regular BGs genetically. If my theory is at all right then I think its more of a mutation of the gene that regulates growth, which became widespread in an isolated population. Whether thats considered a subspecies or just an anomaly, would depend on opinion and specifically how different they are genetically.

You see the same thing with selective breeding in dogs. In general the dogs bred in the US versus the ones from Europe are usually bigger. You would then se 2 types in the exact same breed, but difference in size. That would not make a subspecies, you would just say that one line is American and another is European.

 

[AfricanGreyEnthusiast]

That makes sense. The other day we saw a CAG that was probably twice the size of ours. There seems to be large variations between individuals in birds.

[ame="https://youtu.be/Vpmw09uSDoE"]George - YouTube[/ame]