Green Pans Are they really?

[1CuteTiel]

Green/Ceramic Pans Are they really safe??

Well, I bought Cuisinart Ceramica non-stick pan touted as free of PTFE and PFOA but now it seems this just may be a play on words and not the whole story as while researching ceramic electric griddles I called Presto about the one they make and was told that the ceramic griddles will give off toxic fumes if "overheated" just as the PFOA or PTFE in response to my question of does the ceramic griddle contain any PTFE or PFOA. So I did some more searching on the web and was alarmed by what I found. If I am reading this info correctly then the PTFE and PFOA free claims may be ONLY about the coating and that a base layer of PTFE may be used to get the ceramic coating to stick to the pan or griddle or whatever they are putting the coating on.

see these two links
Teflon ScanpanCookware.com

Toxic Cookware and Cutlery | Rebecca Wood

I lost my beloved cockatiel the end of July this past year (still crying) after 21 years and I am now wondering if these "green" ceramic pans played a part in his death. Just want to give everyone a heads up that the PTFE or PFOA free claim may be specific only to the coating and the item may contain PTFE that could be released but maybe not in large amounts enough to kill only to cause illness or being "off it" or maybe build up over time and cause damage . Who knows??? I had attributed some of his windedness when flying or incoordination when landing to age and an arthritic foot but who knows now. I think that about 9 mos after I had been using these pans that he seemed to be showing his age more but maybe that wasn't it at all. Maybe it was the pans. For what its worth I don't recommend them at this point and I have contacted Cuisinart to ask them specifically if these pans contain PTFE or what they use to bond the ceramic to the pan but I will not be using them until I know. I do not have any birds at this time so avian safety is not issue at this point. I am so disgusted to find this information but thought I had better share it.
I guess there are pans out there that are all ceramic ..... you hope they are anyway ....

 

[Terry57]

I am so sorry for your loss
Thank you so much for the info as well.

 

[Dinosrawr]

Re: Green/Ceramic Pans Are they really safe??

I am so sorry for your loss

My mother bought me Green pans for Christmas, which I politely declined because I too have concerns about them after research despite them being ceramic. What I found is that companies are now using a new form of non-stick known as Thermolon with the ceramic, which we know little about and obviously even less about its impacts on birds.

 

[weco]

It is always very hard to lose a companion of 20 years...I can empathize with you as I lost a MBC at 28+ years that I had bought at 3 months old, but your 'tiel & my MBC lived good lives to the outer limits of their accepted lifespans and without proper necropsies, I don't think it fair to suggest their passing might be attributable to conveniences of our own lifestyle, but we are all free to believe what we want...even though our lifestyles are rife with self-created toxins to both us and those we are charged with caring for.....

Although I am not conversant on the different 'green' technologies being proffered as replacements for the previous Teflon and the licensed formulations that came therefrom, I try not to succome to the glitzy advertising and hyperbole of the various marketing departments of today's vendors/manufacturers, preferring to search further for and rely on credible and verifiable research data from recognized research sources, rather than the hypothesis of writers/reporters, those with their own agendas, like your proffered Rebecca Wood.....

Suppositions without oversight/substantiation have gotten generations into a lot of trouble.....

 

[SoCalWendy]

I use green pans everyday. I have never had a problem.

 

[1CuteTiel]

SoCal Wendy thanks for your input please let everyone know which pans you are using.

Weco - just came across Rebecca Wood had not heard of her before as to the veracity of her information she at least knew that only the 100% ceramic pans didn't have PTFE in them which was more than the pan manufacturers were telling. I just take issue with fact that they are/may be (some) presented falsely by using word-games to make it sound like the pan is PTFE/PFOA free when only the coating is -- it is misleading IMHO and shouldn't be allowed if the product contains PTFE.

Cuisinart has not responded to me and it is now a week since I contacted them asking them whether or not the whole pan was PTFE/PFOA free so I will call them and post an update. I was hoping to get it in writing.

Here is a link from the Environmental Working Group (not perfect but better than nothing) that has documentation of the studies used to write the article

DuPont workers smoke Teflon-laced cigarettes in company experiments | Environmental Working Group

It has more information than just what the title says on PTFE/PFOA problems.

Thank you Terry57 and dinosrawr for your kind words!!!!!

 

[veimar]

I'm so sorry for your loss... That's very difficult after 21 years... I only had my fids about a year and love them like crazy. BTW 21 years is a good lifespan for a tiel, so you shouldn't blame the pans for that. They can live up up 30, but that's not common.
Well, I've been using white Walmart ceramic pan (need to replace it soon) and one expensive "green" pan that my friends gave me as a gift (they are eco-freaks, so they knew what they were buying!), as well as stainless steel pots and pans. Never had any problems with that... If you want to be completely safe use stainless steel. I'm gradually transferring to it.

 

[Tashaaa]

Sorry about your loss. I lost my Eclectus after only 12 short years with her, and it still hurts...
But thank you for that info!! I have been skeptical about those pans.... I want one (cast iron is just soooo heavy), but now I will be so soooo skeptical about them now!!

 

[flyingron]

While I can't argue against being cautious, that Rebecca Wood article is full of all sorts of bunk often repeated, but unsubstantiated. The alleged link between aluminum and Alzheimers was disproven (indeed it was found of these patients do not have any elevated levels of aluminum). German toxicology research shows it's pretty darn hard to get aluminum into the body anyhow. Even once you get it into your food (which is difficult to begin with), it's just not very well absorbed. Only a tiny fraction of even the small amount that might leach into your food is absorbed and only those who are renally challenged fail to eliminate it anyhow.

The talk about cadmium I believe is also unfounded. This harks back not to the current "green" pans but some old enamelware of the past where some of the colorants were found to contain these metals. Unless you are using rather old, foreign manufactured pans, you're not getting cadmium. Similarly for lead. Somehow she gets these old stories of ancient enamel and uses them to taint modern production knives and cookware.

She's right about one thing. The ceramic coatings don't last, mostly because they get tiny scratches in them over time that will negate their non-stickness.

Mostly I don't use non-stick because you can't make sauces in a non-stick pan and frankly the nutrition gurus have moved away from the "all fat is bad for you" and a little oil will obviate a lot of sticking.

 

[weco]

SoCal Wendy thanks for your input please let everyone know which pans you are using.

Weco - just came across Rebecca Wood had not heard of her before as to the veracity of her information she at least knew that only the 100% ceramic pans didn't have PTFE in them which was more than the pan manufacturers were telling. I just take issue with fact that they are/may be (some) presented falsely by using word-games to make it sound like the pan is PTFE/PFOA free when only the coating is -- it is misleading IMHO and shouldn't be allowed if the product contains PTFE.

Cuisinart has not responded to me and it is now a week since I contacted them asking them whether or not the whole pan was PTFE/PFOA free so I will call them and post an update. I was hoping to get it in writing.

Here is a link from the Environmental Working Group (not perfect but better than nothing) that has documentation of the studies used to write the article

DuPont workers smoke Teflon-laced cigarettes in company experiments | Environmental Working Group

It has more information than just what the title says on PTFE/PFOA problems.

Thank you Terry57 and dinosrawr for your kind words!!!!!

Teflon & PTFE is pretty much a dead issue in most free world countries.....if you search through the forum's archives, you'll find a lot of information on the subject.....

As to Cuisinart being tardy in getting back to you, that's not really unusual...not all manufacturers are as quick to deal with product safety questions as we would like them to be, but they usually get around to it.....

I would think that with DuPont's agreement to cease the use of Teflon, along with PTFE & PFOA in the manufacture of cooking utensils this year, I seriously doubt that they or any other manufacturer that may have licensed the formulas & proprietary technology, for use under a different trade name, would risk the same consequences that DuPont agreed to and in the case of foreign manufacturers selling their wares in the U.S., the probable prohibition of their wares and/or being banned anywhere in North America (Canada's on board with the same prohibition as was negotiated for implementation here in the U.S....and the European Union has taken a similar, though more stringent stance, so that pretty much sews up the problem.....although I have not seen anything concerning liquidation outlets peddling previously manufactured merchandise.....

While I totally agree with your "I just take issue with fact that they are/may be (some) presented falsely by using word-games to make it sound like the pan is PTFE/PFOA free when only the coating is -- it is misleading IMHO and shouldn't be allowed if the product contains PTFE."

The reality is that we are a society of advertising junkies and at least here in the United States, we let that horse out of the barn a long time ago and unless you know of a way to get our elected officials to impeach themselves, you're flogging a dead horse there because our Supreme Court has already opened the flood gates on manufacturing $$$ writing laws to protect themselves.....

Anyway, there is already quite a bit of information on the whole Teflon story/history in the forum's archives, if you're interested.....good luck.....

 

[Kalidasa]

Has anyone heard of Ogreenic pans? Any info/experience with them. They're made in china so I'm a little leery.

 

[1CuteTiel]

Kalidasa - I have heard of them but do they contain PTFE or PFOA in parts of the pan other than the non-stick coating? I have no idea. My personal opinion is anyone can overheat a pan. All it takes is one too many distractions and presto burnt pan. I have done it a few more times than I care to admit to my stainless steel pans (steaming veggies & the water boils off). I always run an exhaust fan that vents outside when cooking. With Fids my motto is better safe than sorry.

 

[1CuteTiel]

A partial reply from Cuisinart (but they didn't answer the question or did they?)

I quote the reply below
"Valued Customer,

Thank you for your inquiry. Petroleum based by-products (PTFE and PFOA) are never used on the outside of pans, as they are ONLY used for non stick surfaces, so there would be no reason that it would be on the outside of the pan. Also we do not provide information on what is used to bond the coating to the pan as this information is patented and confidential. If you have any further questions please reply, with history, to this email. We invite you to call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-(omitted #). Please keep in mind the Customer Service Agent will not have access to your e-mail information. The hours of operation are 7 AM -11 PM EST Monday through Friday and 9 AM - 5:30 PM on Saturdays and Sundays, excluding major holidays.
Sincerely,
(name omitted)
Cuisinart Customer Service Representative"

Emailed them back the following
RE: Cuisinart(tm) Greengourmet(tm) Hard Anodized featuring Cermica(tm) 10" Skillet and 12" Skillet

Do either of these skillets in any of their whole or parts of their construction contain any PTFE or PFOA?

I understand the coating does not but what about the rest of pan? Is it free of these chemicals or not?

Sincerely - end

Will let you know what they say.

 

[1CuteTiel]

Tashaaa - sorry to hear about your Ekkie, 12 years is too short, thank you for your kind words!

veimar - thank you for your kind words! you r right 21 years was a good life span and I am grateful to have had him that long - he was a good guy most of the time with a razor beak when in the "rooster" mood but also funny when he would tell me "be a bird" - I miss him more than I thought....

I just don't want anyone to have their fid's lifespan possibly shortened by marketing trickery. I had only had these pans for maybe a year or so before he passed. I realize it could just be coincidence too but I guess I will wonder from time to time.

Flyingron - haha! a little oil does go along way now that it's good for us

weco - you r so right too - he had a long life and a happy one I think
Ah yes, marketing Well, politics is rather nasty (poly many ticks blood sucking insects) this is the major reason to keep government smaller and regulation simple .... but really the individual conscience guided by a system of fair rules enhanced by help/grace from God is the best answer to all this mess and even then it is like learning to walk: tumbles, falls, getting back up etc. Only one is perfect in this life, Jesus. In the next we all have that hope!

PFOA is supposed to go away sometime this year but PTFE is not as far as I could find from searching the web.
Harmful Teflon Chemical To Be Eliminated by 2015
Thanks for the reminder to search the forums for Teflon info too!

Will post whatever additional info Cuisinart shares with me in response to my 2nd inquiry.

 

[1CuteTiel]

This is the reply I received today from Cuisinart:

Valued Customer,

Thank you for your inquiry. The whole pan is PTFE and PFOA free.

If you have any further questions, we welcome you to reply with history to this email or call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-***-**** Monday- Friday 7:00 am - 11:00 pm, EST and/or Saturday -Sunday 9:00 am to 5:30 pm, excluding major holidays.


Sincerely,
E*******
Cuisinart Customer Service Representative
----------------------
This is good to know since these are the only non-stick pans I ever used around my cockatiel.
But before I get a non-stick griddle I will make sure I get in writing that is PTFE & PFOA free!
Hope this is/was helpful!
Peace & blessings to all!

 

[Kyoto]

Thanks for the info 1CuteTiel. Very good to know.

 

[jasper19]

I have just decided to stick to stainless steel pans. I already had a set, and just got rid of the teflon.

if you like olive oil, and research on how to use them, stainless can be used just fine for most things. Gets better with experience, get a good quality pan to.