Lolo - nearly unhandleable

[Dragonwyke]

Lolita is a beautiful 15+yr old female alexandrine parakeet. she's in perfect health and feather. she was released to me about 1.5mos ago because her people decided they didn't have time for her anymore after having a baby. along w/her came her cage, and the one toy and one perch that was in her too small cockatiel cage and her wild bird seed that she's been fed all her life. somehow i don't know how she's managed to stay so healthy and beautiful all this time.

i had to clean her cage before bringing it in the house because there were bugs and spiders under the tray between it and the bottom of the part of the cage. the bottom plastic part of the cage was hard packed w/sawdust. it looks as tho her and her cage had been being stored in a workroom somewhere. i asked about that, but they both insisted she was a house bird that had previously been loved and coddled till just recently. of course, being in rescue/rehab for over 20yrs, i've heard this tall tale many times. her behavior tells me that she hasn't been handled in years, if not since she was weaned. she is absolutely vicious until set down on the floor, then she becomes more malleable.

anyway, my reason for giving Lolo's history is this. i've begun working w/her every morning for about half an hour. i don't do more, more often because it's extremely stressful for her. it takes her a couple of hours to recover and even get a drink of water. i'm wondering if at this age is it even worth the effort to retame her? or should i just get her a boyfriend to live w/her? i have no plans to breed her, tho she would make lovely babies, but i would like for her to have some company as she doesn't seem to enjoy human companionship at all and is very aggressive w/other breeds of parrots. she has lived alone all her live and not been properly handled or fed.

she is now on a proper diet, has gained weight, and has begun growing feathers in properly (they were very thin, and the wrong color green-too pale). any advice, knowledge or experience would be greatly appreciated.

maria~

 

[MaraWentz]

If you want her and are okay with getting bit a few time, having stressful days, and feeling like giving up every now and then, yes. I bought Erin, my red front macaw at 1.5 years and she was bonded to her sister and unhandable. Because she was so bonded I considered her to be "wild". She had barely any human interaction because no one could handle her. All she did was bite and flutter. 2 weeks later she learned to step up. Now (we got her in April) she cuddles with me in bed and enjoys head scratches and learning how to fly on command. How? Treats, target training, clicker training, and not giving in. Okay, so the target training died off after a week, but it got her used to my hand. The clicker training wasn't much training, just clicking with my tongue then rewarding a treat when she does something good. And as for the not giving in (others will disagree), but after a week of her biting the heck out of me because I was asking her to step up instead of demanding it I decided to really train her- the right way. I'm teaching her commands, not options. I.e.- I'd say step up and put my hand against her chest. If she did not I pressed lightly against her chest- forcing her to step up. If she bit I simply ignored it and pretended it didn't happen (it's hard to do at first) and after a week she gave up on the biting and just stepped up, seeing that her biting had no effect.

 

[Dragonwyke]

Lolo isn't 1.5yrs old tho, she's a full fifteen plus years old. she could be as old as twenty at this point. i'm not worried about being bitten myself. i've had my finger broken by a sulfur crested, my lip nearly removed by an amazon, my eye nearly taken out by another 'too, almost a whole facial makeover by a pair of african greys. so a few a bites on my hands from a little alexandrine is about nothing to me. lol i am worried about HER stress level tho. i don't think i've ever seen a birds eyes get so large or pin so small before. lol poor little thing. i figure in few weeks we'll be past this. but it's just terrible on her.

maria~

 

[MaraWentz]

Ohhhhh I thought she was a 1.5 years lol. It's up to you then. How long do they usually live?

 

[Dragonwyke]

actually i don't know for sure. i think maybe 30yrs? 40 perhaps? definitely not as long as the larger parrots, more like the lifespan of the larger conures i would think. i've worked w/much younger ringnecks, but not alexandrines, and definitely no ringneck this age. tho i've always admired these lovely alex's.

maria~

 

[lene1949]

You say it takes you alex a couple of hours to recover after working with her for half an hour...???

This sounds like your bird gets stressed.... What kind of work/training do you do with her?

 

[Dragonwyke]

hi lene,

the "work" i do w/her is simple handling. hand into the cage, removal from cage, and step ups. it always ends up she has to be toweled to be taken from the cage, she attacks viciously any attempt to remove her. she refuses capture w/the towel (as any intelligent creature would) screams and fights it, chews and bites the towel and would bite me if i gave her the opportunity. i take her to a quiet room and release her onto the floor. she calms down a moment and we work on step ups. all the while she is given small fruit rewards for softening behavior. she doesn't always take them, if she's mad enough she throws them at me.

by the time i return her to her cage she's very, very angry.

maria~

 

[Spiritbird]

The towel will only serve to add to her stress. I would lower my expectation and move very slowly. Is she clipped? That may help her to calm down. Then you can keep the cage door open and let her come out on her own when she feel ready. This may take time and adding another bird may also increase her stress.

 

[MaraWentz]

Does she have cage aggression? We noticed when we first got Erin that she would attack and lunge in the cage and we'd have to scare her out but once out and off the cage she'd calm down and was much more easier (but still hard) to work with. So we experimented leaving her on her stand all day and she was much easier to work with not being in the cage. So we nixed it.

 

[lene1949]

Max often doesn't like to be picked up for within his cage... He'll grab my finger with his beak and push it away (he doesn't bite)... If I persist, he grab my finger with his beak as well as his foot and push it away... OK, I get the message. I then close the cage, and open it again about 15 minutes later to let him come out by himself...

I think you should keep your training session to 5 minutes at a time... Will she step up on a stick?

 

[pjoel]

My alexandrine is 20, ive had him for about 2 months, he hates it if I try to take him out of his cage. Some alexandrine are territorial of their cage. Did you get her a different cage? My birds cage opens up at the top and he loves it open because then he comes out on his own. If your birds cage opens at the top try leaving it open. If not leave all of the doors that you have on her cage open and see what happens. She may come out on her own. Alexandrines live to about 40 in captivity if they are kept healthy. Dont give up on her. All birds are able to be trained if you have the time. Keep me updated.

 

[Dragonwyke]

i did change her cage when she first got here. she was in a much too small one that was breaking her beautiful long tail. she's in a much larger cage that is normally used for a flight for finches. for her it's perfect. it's tall enough for her tail and it gives her enough room to stretch her wings and play a bit. it took her a bit to come down from out of the upper corners, but now she likes it just fine.

i haven't tried a stick w/her, but i have left the door open for her and waited for her to come out. she's a little easier to work w/from that vantage point. it's still a bit of a struggle, but she doesn't try to kill me. i haven't tried a stick yet, i always have a hard time doing that because so many birds come to me having been hit and are terrified of sticks of any size. my cockatoo Sylvio cannot bear to see a stick in anyone's hand, he practically throws himself on the ground shrieking and trembling. so sticks are something that's a last resort sort of thing. my comfort is secondary to everything else.

dw~

 

[BradGC]

The only minor problem with letting them come out of their cage on their own is that they'll always be territorial. Our alex only comes out if we put our hand in to get him, if he does step up, he doesn't get to come out n play. If they are biters then you can use a towel or similar.

 

[babybirdie]

Firstly, i am extremely happy that you rescued that poor bird. You should be proud of yourself
Secondly, don't give up on her! Birds are very intelligent and after some good TLC, she should be easier to work with
I learned this from an bird trainer. if she is that scared of you and biting you , put her on a teaching/bird stand . Walk closer to her and the minute she starts to lung at you or bite just keep yourself there and don't move, when she stops lunging or trying to bite you , calmly just go away. Return back after 5 minutes and re-do all the steps. This way she learns that if she is calm then shell get what she wants- you leaving. After few days of this, gradually de-crease your distance from her and this should get her more calm to your presence.
I really hope this works cause i would hate to see anything bad happen to her
anyways keep me updated

 

[Frumpydumple]

Firstly, i am extremely happy that you rescued that poor bird. You should be proud of yourself
Secondly, don't give up on her! Birds are very intelligent and after some good TLC, she should be easier to work with
I learned this from an bird trainer. if she is that scared of you and biting you , put her on a teaching/bird stand . Walk closer to her and the minute she starts to lung at you or bite just keep yourself there and don't move, when she stops lunging or trying to bite you , calmly just go away. Return back after 5 minutes and re-do all the steps. This way she learns that if she is calm then shell get what she wants- you leaving. After few days of this, gradually de-crease your distance from her and this should get her more calm to your presence.
I really hope this works cause i would hate to see anything bad happen to her
anyways keep me updated

This thread is from 2012.

 

[babybirdie]

Firstly, i am extremely happy that you rescued that poor bird. You should be proud of yourself
Secondly, don't give up on her! Birds are very intelligent and after some good TLC, she should be easier to work with
I learned this from an bird trainer. if she is that scared of you and biting you , put her on a teaching/bird stand . Walk closer to her and the minute she starts to lung at you or bite just keep yourself there and don't move, when she stops lunging or trying to bite you , calmly just go away. Return back after 5 minutes and re-do all the steps. This way she learns that if she is calm then shell get what she wants- you leaving. After few days of this, gradually de-crease your distance from her and this should get her more calm to your presence.
I really hope this works cause i would hate to see anything bad happen to her
anyways keep me updated

This thread is from 2012.

LOL, yeah i kinda figured that out after but decided to leave just in case someone finds it helpful

 

[Delfin]

Parrots rarely bite each other, because they convey their feelings beforehand or fly off to avoid physical contact. If it's feels cornered and frighten then need to bite will be from the natural instinct of self -preservation.

The cage is the Parrot safe haven and any attempt to enter, add or remove items and this includes forcefully removing the bird, will most likely trigger a bite response. This why you first build trust with the bird in the cage (safe haven). Trying hanging a chew toy on the outside of the cage.

No putting hands inside the cage. No chasing the bird around the cage or room. (forcing the bird) instead Conducted lots of trust building and bonding sessions (training). I have had great success with the following method to bond and build trust. I would use a T-perch to handle him.

This how I bonded and built trust with an aviary bred bird and have used it on other birds. I obtained a aviary bred IRN a few years ago who we named Bluey. When people approached Bluey he would thrash around the cage in fear. So I needed some tools to address this problem 1 was a clicker 2 was training treats 3 was T-perch.

Clickers are the best for training. Do some research? B F Skinner is a good start. Clicks won't confuse the bird. Where has words can. Without realising, words can be changed. It doesn't seem much, but it is to a bird. Has an example you might be saying "good boy". Then you say "that's a good boy" or you’re a good bird. Clickers are a bridge to identify wanted behaviour between you and your bird.

Second By putting five different foods on a plate and watch which one Bluey ate first I worked out what Bluey favorite food. I used sunflower seeds, corn kernels, pine nuts, grapes and balls of millet. This became Bluey's training treat and I removed this food from Bluey diet. Whatever your bird picks, it must not be part of the bird’s diet otherwise it defeats the purpose of being a training treat. It was sunflower seeds.

These are the procedures I used to calm and interact with him.
Bluey was in a cage in the lounge room. With the clicker in my hand, I entered the lounge room and went to the furthest point away from the cage. Then I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear. When your bird becomes small and "skinny," and the bird's crop often looks sucked in, and all the feathers lie flat on the body. It usually means the bird is scared.

I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed.
Relaxed feathers and wings, standing on one foot, preening and /or grinding his upper and lower mandible together to produce a scratchy or "zippy" noise. This bird is probably content and relaxed. The bird might not display all these signs but relaxed feathers and wings, standing on one foot are a sure sign.

When Bluey relaxed, I click the clicker and took 3 slow steps back waited 20 to 30 seconds. Then, again I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear. But this time I got a bit closer to the cage. Then I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed.

When Bluey relaxed I click the clicker and took 3 slow steps back waited 20 to 30 seconds. I repeated this procedure and with each approach, I would get a bit closer to the cage until I was standing next to the cage and Bluey was relaxed.

When this was achieved I would leave the room for 20 to 30 minutes. Then I would repeat this procedure for 5 to 7 times that day. By the end of the day you should be able to slowly walk up to the cage and the bird should stay relaxed.

I then used a spray of millet first has it was a larger food treat and it allowed Bluey to get use to my hand. Once Bluey became use to my hand I started to reduce the size of the millet until I could use sunflower seeds.

Note: This is important and that is, not to force the bird to do something it doesn't want to do. Let it approach the millet.

Once I was able to walk up to the cage without Bluey being scared, I then started to train Bluey to come out of the cage.
The first stage is with the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other.

I would offer the millet to Bluey through the cage where the perch is attached. If he didn't take a bite of the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove the millet from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds.

Then I would re-offer the millet. When Bluey took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey sight. When Bluey finished eating the millet. I repeated the procedure and did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this 3 more times.

Note: By removing the Millet from the Bird's sight you encourage the "what have I just missed out on. Was that food? Where did it go? Then when you re-offer the millet. The bird thinks I'm not going to miss out again.

The next stage. With the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other. Open the cage door and offer the millet at the entrance of the cage.
Note: Don't put your hand inside the cage has the bird could see this has invasion of their territory.

If Bluey didn't approach the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove it from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds. Then re-offer the millet. When the Bluey came to the cage entrance and took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey sight. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this 3 more times.

The next stage is to place a T-perch just outside the cage. When Bluey flew to the T-perch and took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but I kept it in Bluey sight. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30 minute break and repeated this daily.

You can use the T-perch to return the Bird to the cage. I found that a T-perch is better than a piece of dowel. The bird can run down a piece of dowel and bite the hand. But with the T-perch the bird can run from end to end but the hand is out of reach.

This is more towards interacting with your bird to build trust/bonding. Once you have establish a bond of trust with your bird you can start to train basic tricks. Then advance to more tricks if you desire.
Use the clicker to identify the desired behaviour and the training treats and praise to reinforce that desired behaviour.

My Alexandrine Delfin is fine with the family, has we all take turns in the training. Delfin will fly to us, turn around, shake hands and pick up items and put them into a bin. It's no secret, you just need to spend time interacting and training with your bird.

The clicker is the bridge between you and your bird and you use that bridge to highlight the bird’s desired behaviour to your bird. That how I have gotten Delfin to fly to me, turn around, shake hands and put things into a bin.

I put Delfin on his T-stand and gave him a sunflower seed and click the clicker. This indicates that training has started.
Then in my right hand I held the clicker and the sunflower seed. The set up was the clicker in the palm with my middle finger on the button and the sunflower seed held between my thumb and index finger.

With my left hand I made a pistol so my finger was parallel to the perch and about 3 cm away. Then I would bring my right hand up behind my left hand and show Delfin the sunflower seed and say "come Delfin". if after 15 to 20 seconds Delfin hadn't stepped up onto my left hand I would remove the sunflower seed from his sight.

Wait 20 seconds and reshow the treat. When Delfin stepped up onto my left hand and took the sunflower seed I would click the clicker at the same time. Then I return Delfin back to the T-perch and repeat. I would slowly increase the distance from the T-perch to my hands.
After three days, Delfin was flying 4 metres to my left hand take the sunflower seed and fly back to the T-perch.

The advice I can give is
1 move slowly around the bird
2 let the bird come to you.
3 Don't force the bird to do anything that it doesn't want to do.
4 make the trust building and bonding sessions (training) fun
5 end all training sessions on a positive.
6 patience.

Remember food is a great motivator.

 

[ToriJo]

Does she have cage aggression? We noticed when we first got Erin that she would attack and lunge in the cage and we'd have to scare her out but once out and off the cage she'd calm down and was much more easier (but still hard) to work with. So we experimented leaving her on her stand all day and she was much easier to work with not being in the cage. So we nixed it.

I realize this is an old post but I'm dealing with cage aggression right now with my rehomed GCC (2 yrs old, tamed/trained, know/seen old owners handle her daily and comfortably). When on/in her cage I cannot touch her cage (doors, food, toys, tray), put my hand in, or offer her treats (attacks through bars and dives for fingers when outside). BUT once off her cage she is fine, a little nervous still but never even lunges to bite.

Do people just "nix" cages? Where would she live...