Lovebird seems worse after antibiotics

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
Is the vet worried about aspergillosis? That is fungal and VERY hard to detect because it can still produce normal blood panels if chronic (which it can be) and so it's like a "rule everything else out first" situation. There are few true tests for it-- it starts with making sure its not bacterial, then often blood and other tests, followed by scoping (which is not something most vets can do unless they are avian certified and have extensive equipment). If your vet is worried it could be that, you still need to figure out if there is something more, because aspergillus is common in the environment, but healthy birds normally are okay unless subjected to chronically filthy conditions OR if their immune system is seriously under stress already. Even a healthy bird can get aspergilosis if the environment provides continued/high levels of exposure, but often there is an underlying issue if they do contract it.


Depending on what this is, yes, there is a real risk of infection for your other bird (but without knowing what this is, it's impossible to know) A bird in another room can still transmit diseases (depending on the type). Some viruses can survive for over a year--- for instance, sometimes, if a bird dies, people will go out and bring home a new bird, not knowing that their house is full of the virus (carpet, AC unit etc). Feather dust/dander can spread some diseases and that means that if it is on your clothing or in the carpet or HVAC, that there is a risk. Also, keep in mind that when it comes to viruses, a seemingly healthy bird with no test abnormalities can still spread deadly viruses to others for a lifetime. That is why 45 day quarantine is super important when bringing in new birds (for testing, but also to wait for stress levels to drop, as a stressed bird is more likely to get sick from something that it might otherwise fight off----stress also can increase viral shedding in asymptomatic birds).



Now, if this is aspergillosis, I believe that is not contagious (as it is sort of like a reaction to something that was already there), but in terms of viruses etc - same house= some risk, same room=serious risk.


It just depends on what this is...
 
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Laurasea

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most times its because your bird has been on antibiotics so long it killed the normal bacteria abd allowed fungal infections to take over and overwhelming them. Fungus is everywhere, and normal tou fight it off your body is ball. So I think the other burd will be ok.

Fir my parakeets, who are nit tame and fearful. I took them into the bathroom, covered the cage turned the lights off. Had a small hand towel ready to wrap them in a burd burrito. And reached in and grabbed them, and took the bite. Then wrapped in towel. Turned the light on treated them, the weighed them then back to cage. Worked well for me.
Good luck!
 
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Birdy2020

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Hi noodles and Laura,
Thank you so much for the information.
First, I have an emergency in which I need your advise asap. I had given my love bird his first dosage of antifunal medicine this morning, and I saw something in the afternoon that really worries me. His poop contain yellow urate. His poop was normally up until this morning. I don’t know if this was caused by the medicine or not and I cannot contact his vet until Monday. I don’t know if I should continue with the medication but I am really worried about him.

My vet thinks that he had aspergillosis, she tried to rule out the other options by treating the bacterial infection and see if he gets better. She made two tests that is a swap from his mouth which shows that he had a bacterial infection and a poop test. She told me that both tests didn’t show a fungal infection. But then as you said, if it was aspergillosis, it is hard to identify. I gave him the antibiotics in the water but not directly in the beak. He start getting worse first then he improved a lot, then after 7 days of treatment he started getting worse again.
Most vets where I live focus on dogs and cats, it is rare to find an avian vet. Thus I don’t think they have special equipment for birds test. The two avian vets I had visited they told me after physical examination that he seems fit and strong.

I am not sure if the cause of his symptoms was aspergillosis and I until know he is worse than he was before he visited the vet.

I originally had him from a pet shop, I can tell from his behaviour that he wasn’t living under the best conditions. He was put on all seeds diet + vitamins supplements. He was afraid on everything vegetables/fruits/toys and off course me as well. I had had birds before and I can tell that there is a different between a bird being afraid in a new environment and a traumatised one.
He has been with me for 3 months now and I noticed his voice was not normal after the 1st week.

Have any of your birds get abnormal poop during medication?
 

Laurasea

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I'm not a vet.
But yellow urine is usually dehydration. If he is not feeling good, then had meds, he might have just sat fir a bit and not drink. Make sure food and water are close and give it a little time to sort out. He will probably drink ( when no ones watching lol, I never see mine drink) and self regulate. One or two off poops are going to happen.

Those water bottles can clog , or partially clog and burds has to work to get water. I really am against them. Keep offering water in a dish

Plus is tge little ball metal, and us it safe stainless steel? Because yiu csn hsve chronic metal toxicity mimics all the symptoms you have in your bird. Licking that ball us enough fir exposure
 
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noodles123

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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
How yellow are the urates? I agree with Laurasea..Another thought would be to see if there are any avian vets within a few hours of you that could see your bird.



Did the vet explain why your bird seemed to get better after antibiotics? I know she thinks is aspergillosis but did you emphasize the improvement that you saw initially?
 
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Birdy2020

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As you mentioned Laura, I think the yellow dropping was due to dehydration. It went back to normal after few hours. I am offering the the water in a safe stainless steel bowl (made by Trixie). But 9 out of 10 times he go for drinking he prefers the dispenser.
There is 1 avian vet in the city which was the one I got to in the first place. She had 25 years of "experience" but their clinic treats mainly dogs and cats and rarely birds. I had a very bad experience with that visit and though my bird was in a bad shape she said thats he was only having a common cold and handled him badly during physical examination. So I looked in for another avian vet, and after contacting all animal hospitals within and around the city, I found was an avian vet few hours away from me and this is the one treating him now.
I had explained to her that he got better and then worse during the treatment. She suggested that he was suffering form both fungal and bacteria infections. So the antibiotics helped him at first to fight off the bacteria but then the fungal thrived due to the loss of good bacteria.
He is slightly better now but his diet is changing. He eat and drink so little in the morning and at night he eats a lot. I watched him one night, though it was dark but he does manage to get to his drinking bottle and drinks multiple times. However, that does not happen every night.
 
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Laurasea

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it is common to have a yeast or fungal infections after prolonged antibiotics. So hopefully the new medication will take 3ffect soon .

His behavior shift could be stress. As you say he is un tame. So offer every favorite food and treat. Millet spray is great as higher in calories, tuck that near where he likes to sit. Try what your can to make him feel less stress.

Keep updating us.
 

johnbirds

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Dec 11, 2020
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Hi,

I have a peach face lovebird that I got from a pet shop 3 months ago. After he had settled with me, I noticed that he is sneezing and shaking his head a lot. I had booked an appointment with a nearby avian vet and took him there. The doctor suggested that he might had a cold and that I should put him a warm room and let him rest as much as possible. He hadn't totally recovered in the next month. He was active and eat his food and drink his water normally. However, he still sneezed and kept shaking his head. Later on he started developing a difficulty in breathing specially before he sleeps. Thus, I had booked another appointment with a different avian vet, though this vet was far away from my home but had a very good reputation. The doctor suspected a fungal infection and took a swap from his mouth and a sample of his feces for test. Test results showed that he has a bacterial infection and he was put on antibiotics treatment.

He is untamed, I tried to give him the medicine using syringe in his mouth but that didn't work. After discussing this with the vet I was advised to give him the medicine in his water. I had followed the instructions and had put the medicine in his water dispenser but the medication mix water does split after sometime. I am trying to refresh it every now and then.

Two days of medication have passed, in which he is sleeping all the time, hardly sang during the day and seems much more tired than he was before starting the medication. I would like to ask please is this normal, does lovebirds seems so exhausted in the first days after getting antibiotics?

Your advise is much appreciated.
The Vet should have told you to give a probiotic The antibiotics treatment kills off most all bacteria good and bad the probiotic helps in replacing the good ones
 

johnbirds

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Dec 11, 2020
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Hi,

Thank you Anansi, Lurasea and noodles123 for your help and advise.

The medication that has been prescribed for him is doxycycline 10mg with dosage of 0.13ml if given in the mouth or 1.3ml mixed with 100 ml of water.

I understand that it is best to give him the medication in the mouth. I had tried to do it on the first day. I had prepared the dosage in a 1ml syringe and got his cage into a dark room. When I tried to get him out of his cage using a towel, though it was dark, he kept flying in panic. I was really worried that I might hurt him while I am trying catch him. Once I got him he was struggling a lot. I tried to let him bite onto the syringe but he just didn’t do it and kept moving and shaking his head whenever I put the syringe near it. At the end I had to release him and he was breathing heavily for sometime.

Because he has already difficulty in breathing I didn’t want to stress him out every single day to give him the medication. I am not sure he can withstand it.

The other thing is that, after I got him , I came to understand that birds in pet shops where I live are fed seed only diet and depends on vitamins supplements mixed with their water. You might find it weird but he didn’t even recognise the shape of any vegetables or fruit, he was absolutely terrier of anything I put in his cage apart from seeds.
After many trials, I ended up doing a mixture of different grains and vegetables chopped very finely and I give it to him throughout the day. But he still gets the seed one hour in the morning and one hour before he sleeps. He eats the mixture in small quantities, and he is not a big fan of it.

I understand that fungal in bird is balanced by the good bacteria, and antibiotics can kill both good and bad bacteria, which can results in fungal infection getting worse (if it already exist). I am not sure if he has a fungal infection in his lungs that couldn’t be detected with the swap test.

The medicine has some sweetness in it, I don’t think he drank any less than he usually do, but I am concerned about him getting the proper amount of medication. I will get a digital kitchen scale to track his weight. In his last visit he was 42 gram.
antibitocs (powder form) are supended in syrup like grendine the Vet can or a pharmacist can give the dosage per liquide
 

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