possibly laying an egg?

[Aratingettar]

I love the females

Just always make sure they have enough calcium in their food/ available as extraas-> that is where most problems arise.

(African greys are famous for being calciumdeficienct, so I got lucky and mine were oke with the whole egg-laying. Laying eggs is really is a huge effort for them, so no eggs = better. They really do sound like they are in labour/ I used to sleep next to the cage when it happened, just in case.)

If you are worried about more eggs: just weigh your bird every day at the same time.
(mornings are good: after poop, before breakfast)
Once they start forming eggs - they gain weight very fast!

You have an early warning that way.

I do also love mine, just a bit "nervous" about the binding issue.
Thanks for the "pro-tip" (modern mumble) with daily weighting.. if only Cytrynka would cooperate during weighting I have to chase her and do many attempts before successful readout.

 

[EllenD]

I wish I had been on here yesterday...Glad you got her to an animal hospital and they gave her calcium...

***Please mention to the vet about trying an injection of Oxytocin BEFORE attempting any surgery if she doesn't lay the egg within the next day or so, or if she becomes lethargic/constantly straining/dosing-off/passing huge droppings, etc...These are all classic signs that she is egg-bound, and since they did an x-ray and seem to think the problem is that the egg is simply very large, the best thing to do is an injection of Oxytocin to induce contractions and passing the egg...****I'm assuming since they took an x-ray that they know the egg has already passed into the oviduct and is in the right place for her to lay it, so that's why the Oxytocin is the next step long before any surgery...Sometimes the eggs actually "miss" the oviduct and end-up in their abdominal cavity, and if this kind of egg-binding happens there is nothing to do but surgery; however, since they did an x-ray I'm assuming they're seeing the egg already in the oviduct and they know she can pass it...Sometimes when the eggs are very large they require much more straining/pushing and just energy in-general than usual, and sometimes the bird just tires out and can't do it, so the Oxytocin injection usually will produce a laid egg within 12 hours of the injection, just like they use it to induce-labor in human women who are in labor forever but just won't fully dilate...

 

[SunnyGirl]

so she spent whole day yesterday and the night at the vet in an incubator... I talked to the vet in the evening and there was no big change to the egg yet, but she seemed to be doing fine, ate normally and was very vocal (haha that chicken can scream the whole appartement building awake if she has her moment)... the vet will call sometime today again, said most changes happen during the night... we'll see... I just need her home and well, no matter how much time and money it takes... it's so silent at home, it's creepy and I hate the feeling...

 

[Jen5200]

So glad you noticed and took her to the vet, hoping she passes her egg soon. Egg-laying is one of my worries too (it turns out that I have 4 girls in my flock).

 

[Aratingettar]

I just need her home and well, no matter how much time and money it takes... it's so silent at home, it's creepy and I hate the feeling...

Conure withdrawal syndrome... typical for their parronts.
Hope that Sunny will return to you promptly, in great shape.

 

[SunnyGirl]

I just need her home and well, no matter how much time and money it takes... it's so silent at home, it's creepy and I hate the feeling...

Conure withdrawal syndrome... typical for their parronts.
Hope that Sunny will return to you promptly, in great shape.

deffinitelly very bad withdrawal symptoms...

talked to the vet again... he gave her injection of Oxytocin and they still keep her in the incubator and upped the calcium intake a bit so now he hope that she'll either pass the egg naturally or open up enough so that he can suck it out of her... she needs to stay there for one or two more days, depending on the ex-rays... I just hope that he won't have to cut her open, that would really be a nightmare...


today I had a sudden strong feeling that I really needed to deep clean her whole cage for some reason.. so I took all the perches, bowls and toys out and started to clean it, I often do it, but never as obsessed as today... I swear it sparkles now... but somehow it felt so weid, so final for some reason... I hope it feels better when I put in the regular perches and bowls as well as her new perches and toys... same happened a few days ago, had the huge urge to ask in the local avian group where some avian vets are that people trust, lo and behold, the next day fluff started acting weird and I actually needed that vet... do I have a ghost in my appartement or am I going crazy?

not that my family is of any help either... the only thing I keep hearing is to calm down already... :20_grumpy

 

[Laurasea]

Aww... You have every right to be worried! Non bird people just don't get it!! I'm watching this thread closely, and praying with you that's she home soon. Safe and sound!!

 

[LaManuka]

Yep plenty of well-wishes from us here in Australia! The only thing worse than having your baby stuck in the hospital is being surrounded by family who don’t “get it” but we do, you have our full support.

 

[SunnyGirl]

thank you so much :smile015:

they do love Sunny, but they just don't get why I panic like I do or why I worry so much... to me she's my baby, my everything, the love of my life... to them it's a cute pet... well at least my mum offered to pay half of whatever I need to pay for the vet, treatments and overnight stays...

 

[ChristaNL]

Lots of best wishes for your little one here as well.

I am still hoping she manages to get rid of that egg the natural way.
At least they do it the right way around: with all the extra calcium the egg can solidify, so her muscles have something to grip on/take hold off so they can push it.

I am glad you did not 'stay calm' but followed your instincts/gutfeeling about her needing a vet - you gave her her best chance of surviving this.
(so proud of you as an owner!)

Waiting really, really sucks-- so even if you want to clean the entire house....go for it! It is a lot better than just sitting around, biting your nails and feeling miserable.

 

[EllenD]

Glad they gave her the Oxytocin injection; typically if that doesn't do it then they have to go in and get it unfortunately, although if they are seeing in the x-rays that the egg isn't fully-formed, then that's a serious issue that Oxytocin may or may not help, as passing a "soft" egg is almost impossible...Sometimes they can "suck it out", and a lot of the time the more experienced and well-trained Avian Reproductive Specialists will actually use a short-acting Isoflurene gas or short-acting nasal-sedation on the bird, and then they will actually use an Endoscope to enter into the Oviduct and they'll rupture the egg while it's still inside the Oviduct, then vacuum it all out. I don't particularly like this method because of the risk of Peritonitis (bad Bacterial infection inside the abdominal cavity), but if they are very good and very experienced they can do it...

***If your bird does have to have the egg surgically removed, it's important that you know it's not the end of the world, and that she'll likely be just fine. Parrots have surgery every day, hundreds of thousands of them do with no problems at all. Obviously the biggest risks for Parrots having surgery, especially the smaller species, are #1) Blood Loss (more of an issue in smaller species than anything else) and then #2) General Anesthesia risk...However, the drug combinations they're using on birds/parrots get better and better literally every few months. They are frantically doing research on improving Anesthesia for the animals that have the largest issues with it, birds/parrots and guinea pigs being the ones that have the largest problems with it. But typically they do just fine for a quick procedure like removing an egg from the Oviduct. It's quick, it's clean (not much blood loss at all), and the recovery time isn't long...

****I highly suggest that you talk to your CAV about putting your bird on hormone treatment to shut-down her reproductive system from this point forward, because once a bird has a problem like this laying an egg, they tend to have problems the rest of their life laying them, and what you don't want is for her to have to be opened-up again in the same place, as the risk gets greater each time they have to operate on a bird for the same thing, and their abdominal-walls become extremely weak if opened-up more than once and they end-up almost always Herniating themselves and then require metal-mesh sutures to literally hold them together because their abdominal-wall muscles/tissue/skin is so friable. Soooooo....I would definitely not want to go through this with her again, and the best way to avoid this is to to "shut it down"!

***I highly recommend the newer Deslorelin implants way, way more than the older, less effective and with more side-effects hormone injections with the "Depot" drugs, such as Lupron or Depot Provera...The older "Depot" hormones tend to not work, they have horrible side-effects in some patients, and there is no way to reverse them if there is a bad side-effect that your bird has, once they get the injection they are going to be stuck with the hormone in their system for 3 months or 6 months, depending on what they were given. I have seen Lupron and ALL of the other "Depot" hormone injections fail many, many times where the bird just kept laying egg after egg after egg, and they also became extremely anxious and aggressive from the injections to-boot...

**In-contrast, the newer Deslorelin implants work almost all the time in almost every bird, causing complete chemical-castration and shutting-down their reproductive systems completely with no ill-effects. And if there is an issue they can simply remove the implant which will reverse the effects. The Deslorelin implants are good for 3 months or 6 months (the 6-month is the one most-often used), they are the size of a millet seed and are basically injected with a syringe just like any other injection (they give your bird a lidocaine injection first to numb her breast or back tissue). The whole thing takes about 5 minutes from start to finish, and then they usually don't become at all hormonal again unless you don't keep them on it. And in 6 months they simply inject another Deslorelin implant, no need to remove the old one, it's absorbed by their body...

Do your research online about both the Deslorelin implants and then also the Depot-injections like Lupron, and do your comparisons, then talk to your CAV about it. You don't want this to happen again obviously...

 

[SunnyGirl]

hi, thank you for the long answer :smile015:

the vet did explain the surgery part to me as well as I could understand it... I'm just very anxious when it comes to any type of surgery at all, I know it's absolutelly no comparison, but I ruined my knww and the surgery messed up my whole hormonal system, my head and the knee is still only halfway ok, even after 15 years and lots of rehab and gym... also yes, I know that thousands surgeries are performed every day on people and animals and go really really well, but this is where my anxiety starts acting up reeeeeally badly, this one thing that could go wrong... I know very well it's stupid and I'm just seeing ghosts, that it's only in my head, but darn does it feel all too real...

also yes, we've talked about the implants to prevent any eggs, they would need to redo it 3 times every year and they are expensive, but if I can spent as much as I do on the toys and food, I'll do this too, her health is just too important for me... I'm not sure of which kind the vet uses, I'd need to ask, also on the 6month option as I wouldn't want to drag her in as often and put her under stress and anesthesia too often...

well it's not as much to never have an egg at all anymore but about not having anymore issues with too big eggs and possibly eggbinding or worse... I could handle a normal egg if I just found it on the cage floor and the bird ok (yeah I would have freaked anyway, but not like this), but what has happened just freaked me out too much to just go with the flow and not do anything about it but hope it doesn't happen again so yes, I am considering these implants a lot even if it drains my wallet into oblivion... she's only 7, she could easily be with me for at least the next 20 years and I plan on doing everything I can to make that happen!

it's so amazing to have support like this, especially from people who understand what it is to be bonded to your pet this much and/or who have gone through this and know what to do :smile015:

 

[EllenD]

You don't have to explain, we all understand exactly why you're worried about surgery and this whole thing in-general...It's just that a lot of times bird owners hear the word "anesthesia" and they immediately think "My bird is going to die", and I just want to reassure you that this isn't the case AT ALL. Hopefully it doesn't come to that anyway, hopefully she just lays this big egg and comes home. But if she doesn't, that doesn't mean there are no options...

And yes, the Deslorelin implants aren't "cheap", that I realize. I'm not sure what the Depot injections such as Lupron cost, but I'm sure they're not cheap either, and I'd rather you spend your money on what actually works best...Yes, discuss what type of hormone-therapy he usually does, whether it's an implant or an injection, and if it's an implant ask what kind and what the dosage is, because the dosage is what determines the length of the treatment. Sometimes they have to do the shorter/lower dose implant because of the bird's weight, so that's another thing you need to discuss with your CAV...All I can say about that is that the cost of Deslorelin implants for a few years is going to be less than one surgery, I'm sure of that...They do make your life a lot easier and with a lot less worrying about your baby...

Keep us updated on how she's doing...I'm hoping to see an update with a photo of a huge Conure egg in it!!!

 

[SunnyGirl]

well anesthesia is a word that really is bad to me, it messed me up too much to trust the thing at all, sadly... not just in the combination with a bird...

well he didn't even mention injections at all, so I'm not sure they have them at all, but after reading about the implants, I'm deffinitelly going with them...

I'll deffinitelly keep you all updated as soon as I hear from the vet... I'll ask for the ex-rays if I can have them or something but I don't really care about the egg, even if it would be fun to have the huge egg shell on the shelve above the tv...


update: just talked to the vet, sadly nothing big changed other than that the egg is now fully hard as it needs to be... I need to call again friday morning to see, cause if nothing happens till then he'll need to open her up on friday, as he's going out of state for saturday and sunday (ugh I hate this part) and to leave the egg inside till monday wiuld be so so very wrong...

I got busy and redid her cage setup, added a more perches and toys, will also hang her cage cover differently, from the ceiling down (we got a hook up there that was meant for hanging a potted flower or something and is still waiting to be used), just need to buy enough fabric and curtain hooks...

 

[Aratingettar]

@EllenD I'm greatly impressed by your knowledge on Parrot's health and medical procedures and all.. It's strange, but as you say it it seems... reassuring?.. (not sure if it's the right word here). Kind of "These things can be controlled" feeling.


@SunnyGirl I can only imagine what you're going through, and must admit I wouldn't like to be in your position. But it seems that Sunny's Vet is a person that knows the procedures.. initially, after EllenD wrote about the implant, I thought to myself "OK it can be _THAT EASY_ in the US, but what about Europe, and especially the ex-communist countries which are still less developed than the "Old western countries". But your Vet knows it and even suggests it, and that means they're "up to date".
I believe that you must be freaking out inside, I would that, too, knowing Cytrynka could possibly need surgery. But, as EllenD wrote, many birds have done it previously, and are in great shape and of good health.

But hopefully, things will work out for Sunny and you without the need for surgery. Which is what I do wish to both of you Meanwhile, as Christa wrote, try to find something that will occupy your mind. It's not easy, but definitely "doable".

 

[Laurasea]

Thanks for updating us. We are all rooting for you both! Make sure you find out who the cover veterinarian is before yours goes out of town.

 

[SunnyGirl]

current update.... no big change sadly, she seems to be feeling ok, warmed up to the vet and nurses, is letting them pet her and carry her around on theit hand or shoulder, she is eating and drinking normally... the vet will be back sunday afternoon, sadly no vet will be present till then as there are only 2 avian vets in the whole freaking country... but there will be his doughter present all the time, she's a vet technician and Sunny seems to like her... we decided to wait till sunday as she seems to be doing well... I just don't dare to take her back home as I might mess things up and panic and just make it worse...

either way it's a very very hard decision, it breaks my heart to even be in the position to need to make a decision like this... but I am trying to stay hopefull and positive about it, I know that nothing will change if I stay at home on my couch and cry every day, but it's hard...

has anyone had any experience with similar things or has heard/read anything about the egg being in there for so long without the bird getting eggbound or having problems? it's just so weird...

 

[Laurasea]

Most of us don't know about the egg until our females lay them. Yours wasn't fully developed when you first went in. Now it's developed, but she isn't actively trying to lay it yet....
So she is stable, until she is trying to pass it out...I guess the big concern is how big is it, and does the vet think she can lay it on her own?
Sometimes they wait till it's dropping, then do anesthesia and remove it from the outside, without surgically opening the abdomen. They can also open the abdomen surgically and do it that way. Depends on so many things..
I've only had experience with egg laying once. My GCC I had for ten years thinking she was a boy. I got my second GCC and had them both DNA tested. Before the results came back, the excitement of the new GCC caused my boy (lol) to lay eggs. After the shock of the first egg, I could feel each egg before she laid them. She laid four. I just removed them as she laid them, most were broken on the bottom of the cage. Then for seven years she never laid again. Ta-dah my current girl had never laid in eight years. But I'm am worrying that with Neptune, she might.....
So your girl is safe now. And hopefully she will be able to lay on her own. It don't know if it would help to provide her with a box? To make her more comfortable to lay it? Since you know eggs are in there already???

 

[EllenD]

It's not uncommon for them to carry an egg around for quite a while if it's large. The main factors in determining whether it's "too long" are #1) Is the egg in the Oviduct or was it deposited into the free-abdomen; obviously if the egg didn't drop into the Oviduct then surgery isn't an option; I'm assuming that your bird's egg is in the Oviduct since she had an x-ray done and they're waiting for her to pass it, so that's good...and #2) Is the bird displaying any outward symptoms of pain, anorexia, or any neurological issues like being disoriented, going in and out of consciousness, losing any feeling in their legs (due to the egg pushing on the sciatic nerve), any bleeding from the cloaca/vent, etc. As long as the bird is awake and alert, is eating and drinking normally, isn't showing any signs of pain or numbness in their legs, etc., then it's okay to wait for the egg to pass...What typically "forces the issue" is when either the egg ruptures/breaks inside of the bird's Oviduct and then you've got a huge risk for egg-Peritonitis, which is fatal if not taken care of by evacuating the remnants from the Oviduct with a vacuum, flushing with antibiotic-fluids, and then putting the bird on a round of antibiotics to fight-off any bacterial infections from starting, OR usually what "forces the issue" is when another egg is formed and moves into the Oviduct...That's when you'll typically see the bird stop eating, start showing signs of pain, their legs go numb, they start becoming very neurological and disoriented, and then that calls for surgery to get the egg out of there before the extreme pressure causes damage to the Oviduct and surrounding structures/organs.

As long as your bird is still acting normally, eating normally, walking normally, and is not neurological, then it's okay to keep waiting..The problem is that you have no idea when another egg is going to form and make it's way into the Oviduct...

***Are they still giving her injections of Oxytocin? They should be giving her Oxytocin injections at least every other day, as the one they gave her days ago will have long wore-off now...And are they doing any other things to try to relax her abdominal/pelvic muscles and promote passing the egg, such as putting her in a small room with a running shower/sink full of tons of steam, and then allowing her to sit in a container of very warm water that covers her vent completely and also goes up over her lower abdomen/pelvis? Usually the CAV will give regular injections of Oxytocin either every 12 hours or every 24 hours and then a couple of hours after giving the most recent injection of Oxytocin they will then put the bird into a very small room with running hot-water creating a ton of steam while having the bird sit/lay in a container of very warm water covering her vent and lower abdomen...The other thing they should be doing besides the regular Oxytocin injections is creating a very small, dark, warm place for her to be staying in full-time that contains some type of "nesting material". This greatly influences her hormones to go nuts, makes them extremely "broody", and in-combination with the Oxytocin injections usually does encourage them both physically and psychologically to lay the egg...So if they are keeping her inside of some type of Brooder, or better-yet a small Incubator that is both heated and gives her oxygen, then they should create a "nesting" environment inside of the Incubator, using either a blanket, towels, or simply "nesting materials" like bedding/shredded paper, etc., and then also covering all windows of the Incubator/Brooder so that it's not only creating a very small, dark, warm "nesting" area for her, but also giving her complete PRIVACY, which is very, very important...It's the same concept as creating a small, dark, warm box with blankets/towels/nesting material like hay and placing it in a quiet area that is away from all people and other animals, thus giving privacy to a pregnant female mammal, such as when trying to get a pregnant rabbit, cat, dog, guinea pig, etc. to birth their babies. So hopefully they have her incubator nice and cozy, very warm, full of things for her to use as "nesting materials", and have the incubator covered-up with towels/sheets so that it's dark and so that she can't see people constantly looking at her or walking by her. It's okay to lift the sheets over the incubator to check on her once every hour or so, to make sure she's not in distress, but I hope they aren't "bugging her" constantly or keeping her in an incubator that is out in the open of the veterinary office, with people constantly walking by her or messing with her, and with other birds and animals around her, and that they do have the incubator completely covered-up so to give her privacy and to make her feel safe, secure, and like she has privacy...It's quite possible for pregnant animals or birds carrying eggs to purposely not want to lay their egg or go into labor because they don't feel that it's a safe place to have their babies or for their egg to be...

 

[SunnyGirl]

I have no idea what my fluff is thinking, but she just won't pass that egg but at the same time isn't eggboung either... she is doing fine and is entertaining the whole clinic, the nurses love her (she let's them cuddle her and carry her around on their shoulders, she even demonstrates what good of a flyer she is) so the vet is still waiting and I'm going down there for a few hours today, it might help the most if I'm there and she can spend some time with me... I just don't understand the whole thing anymore :11: