Adopted IRN - wordy Backstory, Question on his size, & other tidbits

Squeeing_Onion

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Parrots
"Bongo" - Green Cheek Conure
“Echo” - Indian Ringneck
"Chicken" - Sun Conure, rest in peace, my precious friend.
Heya! Man, it's been a while since I've posted on the forums here, but I've poked my head in now and then over the years to read up on other posts.

A handful of you may remember me as my late Sun Conure, Chicken's owner -- I am now a very proud caretaker of a little sassy Green Cheek, Bongo, and a newly adopted, Indian Ringneck, of whom this post is for in particular.

Some history on my IRN:

His previous caretaker (Let's call her PC for short) had him for about two months I wanna say, before I adopted him. PC reached out to me from a Craigslist ad I posted searching for a second bird to adopt, and of all the people she reached out to, I was apparently the only one to respond. I was informed that he was an untamed, hand-shy, previously very neglected bird who had a fear of being confined to a cage and could not fly or glide with a very badly botched wing clip. He had a legband that was very carefully cut off because it was too small for his leg and digging into it; fortunately he doesn't appear to suffer any long-term damage from that as he moves very well and doesn't seem sore at all. He had rubbed a hole between his nares and rubbed off some forehead feathers, in his efforts to try and escape confinement (I was told he was "kept in a small aquarium" poor baby ;-;). Both these injuries were healed by the time I met him, and his forehead feathers regrown.

After many weeks of PC being in contact with the store he was held at, she went in one day to discover he was no longer on the sales' floor, and asked about him; PC was told that "there's something wrong with him, so we moved him to the back" into a dark backroom. When she asked what was wrong with him, they told her that "he had become very mean" and they could no longer feed him without being attacked, and forget handling him anymore.

She eventually purchased him on 'clearance' price from the store and reported them to an animal welfare group, I am unclear on if they were made to pay his resulting vet fees for the legband removal or not, but the report was submitted.

Anyhow, Echo then moved into her home with two other birds, and unfortunately, threw off a very peaceful flock dynamic they'd been enjoying; he and PC's Amazon did NOT get along, and actively picked fights with each other. I'm told he got along with her cockatiel. PC had a spare cage to keep him in for part of the time when she needed to let her other birds loose, but he was otherwise kept as cageless as possible due to his neurotic escape-behavior that had led to his prior injury of a facial wound.

I went down to meet him before committing to the adoption, and met a bird who was content to watch and observe me, and would quietly move away from me to a further perch if I drew too near for comfort. I stopped and backed up each time he moved away, and I considered this a better sign than I had hoped for; my first two parrots were ones who came to me with already established biting (and in Bongo's case, screaming) habits, so it was a bit refreshing to be faced with one who was wiling to simply remove himself first instead of going straight into a territorial threat display.

Fast forward another month -- I had to wait to bring him home until I had completed a week long road trip I flew home from, to help a friend move cross-country -- and PC drove him up to my house to deliver him, and I paid the adoption fee that covered her costs for his initial purchase and care. I do have an agreement that if things don't work out with him in our home to return him for a half refund, but so far, as I've an obligation first to Bongo, however I am very optimistic this will be his forever home.

By the time he was dropped off, PC let me know that he had taken his first flight and flew to her in the office, so I changed my gameplan a bit for having an untamed, flighted bird in my house.

We estimate him to be no older than eight months. A store employee said they got him from a breeder in the cities. I contacted them hoping to learn his exact hatch date from the breeder, and they have yet to reply. (Honestly, I don't expect them to, but it was worth a shot!)

I've named him Echo, which he responds to though I'm not sure he quite realizes it's his 'name' yet. He was called Mr.Bean by his previous caretaker; he didn't respond in any way to that name, and I didn't feel it fit him, hence the renaming. If he'd been attached to the name, I wouldn't have tried changing it.

He came to me on a diet of mostly veggie chop, fruit, with a seed ball or two, and a treat every day. I am hoping to convert him to primarily pellet diet as his main course with the veggie chop supplement, and ofc, treats here and there. I feed TOPS and Harrison's pellets; he seems interested but skeptical about the TOPS, and promptly threw all the Harrison's out of his bowl, so I've kept those for Bongo for now.... they expensive and my wallet was crying XD I'll offer them again once he's figured out the TOPS.



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All of these are recent, some from today -- What do you think? Is he just a chubby IRN, is he actually a bit big for an IRN, am I just being a typical new parrot owner who is clueless? XD

For reference, his cage is literally only a centimeter shorter than Bongo's, and has a larger bar size, but they're otherwise the same dimension. She's in a preview hendrix flight cage. He's in a similar model but probably a different brand, as his only has two doors (a good thing, and perfect for him, because I'm told he's an escape artist. PC found this out because she came in to find him escaped from his cage... and he let her other birds out, too!)

Here's some photos PC gave me before I met him:
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Here you can see the little hole he rubbed above his beak :< poor baby
I've been able to keep him happy when he is confined in his cage by putting newspaper in the corners, so he shreds and chews on that first instead of shoving his face into the bars.

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Another early vet pic -- this was the too-small legband they removed from him.
This injury has since healed, his feathers
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I believe this one was taken at the store he was rescued from, I'm not clear on that.

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This was one of the first photos I got of him, and the one that stole my heart. THE LITTLE TOOOOEEEES. SUCH POOF. SO FLOOF. TOOOOOOOES.

So, anyhow, there's my long-winded intro to Echo the Possibly-Chubby Indian Ringneck.
Thoughts, advice, input? :D

Where we're at now:

He gets out-of-cage time each day because he's learned he can fly to and from his cage and birdie-safe areas, and let's us close the door without fuss. I've made sure we haven't closed the door every time he finally goes back in, and to play with it now and then and bring a treat over to his food dish while he's inside. Sometimes he lets me walk within a few inches of him (usually if he's shoulder-high and higher on the playgym, he's wary of hands) without moving away; he'll eat, preen, and play with his toys now. We hear new vocalizations from him each day as he settles in; I'm told he does speak english words, his favorites at the moment are simple birdie burbles and possibly mimicking Bongo's GCC call (which sounds ridiculously adorable in his deeper voice compared to Bongo's little squeak). He lets me service his food and water bowls without attacking, he just hangs back in the corner and eeeeevery so often will remain put in his middle perch instead of moving away.

All in all, he's settling in much faster and smoother than I had hoped for, though I also feel a little like I'm 'waiting for the other shoe to drop.' He bit PC once in her keeping -- I didn't get he story on how that transpired -- but he has been content to simply move away from Mama or I when he feels insecure, instead of lunging at us, and we're being very careful not to force him into a position where he feels he has no other choice but to bite.

He won't take treats from our fingers yet; once he does, I'd like to start him on target training so he can have hands-off interaction with us and get more comfortable around our hands.
 

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Forgive the back-to-back posting, but I had to cut some of my original post out due to the character limit >.>

here's my questions:

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Now... on to my questions!
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WILD BEHAVIOR:

Okay, so apparently either I suck at google search, or this info really is just that hard to find. I've been looking for articles on IRN flock behavior in the wild -- how long chicks stay with parents for, matriarchal or patriarchal flock dynamics, what calls they typically use for warning, joy, MINEMINEMINE, etc, any info on their typical, natural behavior. I can only read so many blog posts with the same copy-pasted information on their size, looks, the fact they are reputed as hands-off and difficult to keep without any actual info on their learning behaviors, and what region they are from. Does anyone have any recommendations for in-depth reads on this species?

VOCALIZATIONS:

I've seen IRN before -- but I never actually had the pleasure of spending time with them, or hearing their cute little voices. As such, I'm learning a whole new birdie language. I know when my GCC Bongo is angry, upset, grumpy, sassy, playful, having fun, alarmed, scared, and terrified. I know when she's throwing a fit over something 'silly' and when she has a serious complaint I need to fix ASAP. I don't have that with Echo, I don't know his species' sounds yet. I tried googling for their noises, and I got... well, nothing helpful or useful. I know what beak grinding and growling are, that birds will 'talk and burble' to themselves when entertaining themselves, but none of the vides actually showed specific noises. What I was hoping for was examples of the typical 'warning' vocalization, the 'bird alarm' as i like to call it, 'neutral just-a-bird-noise,' contact calls, play noises, etc. I know this is something I'll learn over time and familiarity with Echo, but any starting info gets me ahead of the curb in understanding him, so... any suggestions? :D

MULTIPLE BIRD SYNDROME (lel):

As you can see, I am in the beginning yet very uncurable stages of MBS. That said... this is my first time owning more than one bird at the same time. The only time either of my birds display any sort of territorialism thus far is if they fly to the other's cage (which I come over to remove them -- in Echo's case he simply flies back to his cage or the play gym, and in Bongo's case she'll step right onto my hand or arm). They seem curious about each other without being obsessed; at what point, if ever, is it a good idea to try letting them out at the same time? I wasn't expecting Echo to be so much bigger than Bongo, most the IRNs I saw were about the same size if only a tiny bit bigger than the green cheeks and sun conures I saw them next to; the sunnies looked to be either only a tiny bit smaller, if not the same size or bigger than the IRNs I saw them with. My first bird was a sun conure, so he was a good size comparison, too -- this guy is definitely BIGGER than him!

In the case of worst case scenario and they get into a squabble, are oven mitts and a soft stick to put between them an okay approach to separating two fighting birds? What's your experience with that, and how did you approach it? I have a very good avian vet a half hour away and corn starch on hand for stemming bloodflow, which gods almighty I hope I never have to use, but hope for the best and plan for the worst, right?

So far Bongo has been as my normal Bongo do; I haven't noticed any difference in her behavior since introducing the new birdie, except that now and then she gets curious about him and either tries to get him to talk to her, or she flies over to investigate his cage and his, of course, food bowls I don't let her into xD

SIZE:

I've seen Indian Ringnecks before at the parrot rescue in Forest Lake, though I've never handled them before -- and I can't tell if it's just me, but Echo seems BIG for an IRN. He has large feet, not like the delicate little toes I've seen in pictures, and even when he flattens all his feathers he still has a larger body build and big head. The beak-to-tail length seems right; I haven't had the chance to weigh him yet, though my mom and i suspect he may be a little overweight. When he fluffs up, he looks like a mini eclectus.

I also googled soooo many photos, as many as i could find, of IRN with green cheeks, to get an idea of size comparison before he moved in... and either my little girl is small for a GCC, or Echo is huge for an IRN! He's like three times the size of her, it's crazy. I read that they can cross-breed with Alexandrine and African Ringneck parrots, but I'm not familiar with this species at all so have no idea what to think beyond "huh, he seems like a big boi." Thoughts? I'll attach some photos, sorry I couldn't get a proper scale photograph but I didn't want to stress him out by forcing my way into his personal space bubble.
 
Ok ! Lol I think you've beat me st long posts lol.
Love the story though!!!!! Will go read more carefully.

First off msybe Alexander? Or a cross....now I have no claim to knowledge on IRN and Alexander ect... except reading Cottons story who is a ARN. In reading up and trying to learn the difference I came across lots of info on crosses. Evidently they will breed and people not telling tgrm apart breed.. cross breed in escaped wild populations....but again I'm only claiming novice level here lol. Doesn't have the maroon wing patch. Beak doesn't look extra large..but to my novice eyes dies look a little different...
Here a li k on hybrid

Congratulations! Thank you on taking him on!! Will read everything you've shared see if I can offer anything.

Even if pellets becomes primary diet lots of recommendations out there to still feed 10% of diet as seeds. Plus the 10% fruits and lots of veggies. . But you sound knowledgeable about diets and ofcourse we all trying to get it right abd there are all kinds of recommendations out there.
 
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Ok ! Lol I think you've beat me st long posts lol.
Love the story though!!!!! Will go read more carefully.

First off msybe Alexander? Or a cross....now I have no claim to knowledge on IRN and Alexander ect... except reading Cottons story who is a ARN. In reading up and trying to learn the difference I came across lots of info on crosses. Evidently they will breed and people not telling tgrm apart breed.. cross breed in escaped wild populations....but again I'm only claiming novice level here lol

Congratulations! Thank you on taking him on!! Will read everything you've shared see if I can offer anything.

Even if pellets becomes primary diet lots of recommendations out there to still feed 10% of diet as seeds. Plus the 10% fruits and lots of veggies. . But you sound knowledgeable about diets and ofcourse we all trying to get it right abd there are all kinds of recommendations out there.
Hehe, yeah I always have to go in and cut a bunch out. Curse of being a writer I suppose! 😂🤣

I don’t intend to remove veggies and fruit from his diet at all - I am estatic he eats them! Bongo I can get to eat most any berry and *some* veggies, but she mostly turns her beak up at them. I’m hoping Echo’s enthusiasm for fresh foods will help encourage her to try them.

It sounds like he was fed primarily chop and then a nutriberry or two each day, which I don’t feel was a whole enough diet for him, especially since he will pick parts out of his chop he doesn’t like, and fruits are very high in sugar for how little exercise he was (previously) getting. He flies around from perch to perch or to check things out when he has out of cage time, so I am hopeful it won’t be long before he’s in better physical shape.

I swapped peanuts out for almonds, I know they were his fav but I don’t like feeding them due to fhe risk of fungus or mold spores (which i myself am super sensitive to, so the only person in the house who eats peanuts/peanut butter is my mom 🤣)

I’d like to see him eating free-fed pellets with supplement of chop; he gets it in the morning at wake up time, and it lasts until afternoon before i swap it out. Treats i offer are almonds, raspberries, blueberries, apple, nutriberries (though he gets a couple of these each day as they’re what he was fed before and likes, and i am more concerned making sure he is eating enough), and whatever fruits or veggies we have on hand that are birdie safe.

So… ye, mainly pellets is the goal for the vitamins and minerals being balanced, with supplement of fresh veg, and then a little fruit here and there. I reas that IRN eat nectar and a LOT of fruit in the wild, so I have been offering him a bit more fruit than my little conure gets. He seems to love the quinoa in his chop, so that’ll make a regular feature :D
 
I use an envelope to stick between squabbles or prevent charges. So as to not cause hand shy, plus it's easy and handy and both birds will back off.

Despite size, gcc usually the tougher and instigator .

My quakers are Slightly larger bulkier than my gcc. My Gcc is 74 grams my quakers are about 110-125 grams . My gcc is the boss
Clark conure and his quaker the gcc was the boss as well
Irn I think are around 110 grams ish with longer kesn bodys.. nit sure body length.

I've seen irn with quakers and tgey seemed similar suze except the long tail on irn
How much your gcc weigh?
 
I use an envelope to stick between squabbles or prevent charges. So as to not cause hand shy, plus it's easy and handy and both birds will back off.

Despite size, gcc usually the tougher and instigator .

My quakers are Slightly larger bulkier than my gcc. My Gcc is 74 grams my quakers are about 110-125 grams . My gcc is the boss
Clark conure and his quaker the gcc was the boss as well
Irn I think are around 110 grams ish with longer kesn bodys.. nit sure body length.

I've seen irn with quakers and tgey seemed similar suze except the long tail on irn
How much your gcc weigh?
I used a braid of sweetgrass the other day, just dropped it between them when Echo landed on the perch outside Bongo’s cage and then opened his beak in warning when Bongo came marching towards him… both of them stopped like “wait what” then he flew off.

Envelope is a great idea, ty! I’ve got plenty of paper things handy 🤣

Bongo weighs 71 grams, which is actually a few grams heavy for her yet not quite overweight; Echo I have zero hope of getting on the scale for now.
 

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LoL. Cute little TOOOOOOOEES... What were you thinking? Those are TALONS and they have serious grip strength, for such a small bird. I actually like to feel Mango hanging onto my bare shoulder. I have yet to weigh mine, but it's somewhere on his vet report.

You will need to listen carefully, but you may find the typical loud scream they make actually has a number of distinct inflections and tones that give different meanings. I believe I can distinguish a panic call, group call, and frustrated call (when I do not respond). See if playing cop sirens gets a response. It ignites both my IRN and Cockatiel.

You will absolutely want to read some articles, http://silversageaviaries.com/
 
LoL. Cute little TOOOOOOOEES... What were you thinking? Those are TALONS and they have serious grip strength, for such a small bird. I actually like to feel Mango hanging onto my bare shoulder. I have yet to weigh mine, but it's somewhere on his vet report.

You will need to listen carefully, but you may find the typical loud scream they make actually has a number of distinct inflections and tones that give different meanings. I believe I can distinguish a panic call, group call, and frustrated call (when I do not respond). See if playing cop sirens gets a response. It ignites both my IRN and Cockatiel.

You will absolutely want to read some articles, http://silversageaviaries.com/

YAAAAY! That gives me so much hope. I can do that with my GCC, with Echo it's just going to take time to learn his voice. I have been able to figure out roughly when he is mad at something (though not always what he was upset about, sometimes it's very obvious), and when he is contact-calling, though I am still learning the tone difference between other calls. He has a few he does I'm not yet sure what he makes them for, or if he's making sound just to make sound.

I've been on the Silver Sage Aviaries website, lots of good info!


hehe.... Yeah, his feet are nearly three times the size of Bongo's, and you will still hear me squeal in adoration of even Eagle or Owl feet.

Cute little razor-dagger-stabby-tipped tooooeeeesss!
 
I would get a vet exam check up. To make sure thus fluffy isn't a sick bird. Really should look more sleek....so I worry a little that is fluffed not feeling well
 
I would get a vet exam check up. To make sure thus fluffy isn't a sick bird. Really should look more sleek....so I worry a little that is fluffed not feeling well
I am worried about that, too -- I'm waiting to hear back from my vet on when they're open to see him. He has been slimming down each progressive day for longer at a time, and when he's playing and exploring, so I have hope it's mostly that he's stressed from the move and our house is cooler than the tiny home he came out of.

Each bird has a heater in their cage since our house is weird with air currents and gets... drafty isn't the right word, but it feels cold in here sometimes even when the thermometer is saying 71-72 degrees, and different areas are warmer than others. (our house was built in te Boomer time period, and is REALLY badly made :< reee) Bongo was a poofy floofball for a while even when i moved her cage around, until I discovered the heaters.

I'll keep you updated!

And WOOOOO I GOT HIM TO WADDLE ONTO THE SCALE! 134 grams, eek!
 
Id love the IRN and Alexander ect folks to weigh in lol
I'll Google but I think that's high for IRN. Edit..Google says normal range ;)
Glad yiu going to get him/her checked out.
How are poops? Any green urine
 
Id love the IRN and Alexander ect folks to weigh in lol
I'll Google but I think that's high for IRN. Edit..Google says normal range ;)
Glad yiu going to get him/her checked out.
How are poops? Any green urine
His poops the first day and a half home were very watery, but i expected that because he mostly ate grapes and some chop that day his previous owner dropped him off.

He had a few green-stained poops, which i think were colored from the fruits and veggies he was eating; all his poops yesterday and today have been great. Good form, normal colors. There’s a tiny yellowish stain on some of the dried poops, a lot of google searching pics of normal and not normal poops said this was normal range. He plays, eats, vocalizes, gets around, bright eyes, interested in his environment, goes to bed without fuss, demands his veggie breakfast immediately upon being uncovered 🤣

He poofs his feathers when he “hangs out” or naps, and they go flatish again whenever he plays with toys, moves around, explores, etc, which is the same behavior I see in Bongo; both of them also spend nap time sitting near their little heaters.

He ALSO poofs his feathers at me most any time i whip a camera out to catch a photo of my cute little pudgy Echo as anything other than a green potato; he knooooows!

I definitely think he’s overweight; by how much I won’t be certain of until the vet has a look at him to feel his keel bone, but he pudgy like Bongo was when I first got her. My birdie doc is happy at the diet change I am shifting him to - he was fed chop as his primary diet with nutriberries, I know pellets were offered but if I recall correctly he rejected all the ones PC gave. He is beginning to eat the TOPS pellets I provided, so YAAAAAY!! That and his enjoyment of flying all over the house to visit other perches will help loads for his diet and weight loss.

I talked with my vet on the phone and she’s said to keep an eye for any changes, that he sounds fine, and she’d like to see him in a few weeks so we can give him some more time to settle in here and I can desensitize Echo to the birdie carrier.
 
I totally missed this thread while I was out of fast Internet range!

I have no real advice other than you will know an IRN alarm call when you hear it 😆 There's a YouTube video that's an hour long of baby IRNs that make my ARN go bonkers (he LOVES them!) so that might also prompt Echo to share new noises with you ;)

Congratulations! I'm so excited to see how your relationship develops!
 
I am worried about that, too -- I'm waiting to hear back from my vet on when they're open to see him. He has been slimming down each progressive day for longer at a time, and when he's playing and exploring, so I have hope it's mostly that he's stressed from the move and our house is cooler than the tiny home he came out of.

Each bird has a heater in their cage since our house is weird with air currents and gets... drafty isn't the right word, but it feels cold in here sometimes even when the thermometer is saying 71-72 degrees, and different areas are warmer than others. (our house was built in te Boomer time period, and is REALLY badly made :< reee) Bongo was a poofy floofball for a while even when i moved her cage around, until I discovered the heaters.

I'll keep you updated!

And WOOOOO I GOT HIM TO WADDLE ONTO THE SCALE! 134 grams, eek!
I been waddling onto the scale lately, too…
 
Update for those curious!

Echo has adjusted really well to living with us. In fact, he had his first big road trip to go camping with Bongo, myself, and my Mom over memorial weekend. The guns and canon fire from the service and events didn’ phase him one bit, he was taking a lot of cues from Bongo and us; if we were chill, so was he.

He has started taking treats from our fingers!
 
This is a fantastic update!

Are you hearing more of his talking/words/inflections now?
I haven’t heard any words, though he’s started copying a few of my whistles and some of Bongo’s noises! We hear him vocalize his ridiculously adorable little beeping noises (i still have no idea if they are normal ringneck sounds or if he stole them from the birds he was with priorly, SO CUTE OMG!) way more often, and now he will happily stay with his head and beak tucked into his back feathers when we walk past if he is napping.

He almost landed on my arm last week for a treat, he hovered around in front of my face trying to figure out how to land on it before changing his mind and letting me just hand it to him on the perch.
 
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One of his favorite perches is to hang out on these two tree decor thingies i have hanging above the door and a window (the door gets deadbolt locked so no risk of it being opened on him when birdies are loose). I’ e been doing okaybkeeping him from chewing on furniture, and he’s been happily shreddingnhis own (and Bongo’s 🤣) toys.
 
Hahaha I love that he hovered to have a think!

I love all the beeps ringnecks make - my ARN has a variety of beeps and then a whole bunch of monkey noises 😁 and recently a more obvious "hello" in beep form !
 
Hahaha I love that he hovered to have a think!

I love all the beeps ringnecks make - my ARN has a variety of beeps and then a whole bunch of monkey noises 😁 and recently a more obvious "hello" in beep form !
Awww that’s so cute!
My mom and I struggle so hard. Watching a very serious movie scene of emotional impact—

And then, from the other room, little beeps and clucks and MUH HEAAAAARRRRTTTTTTT. TOO CUTE.

Real wild difference after living with a sun conure and then a green cheek conure for the last… goodness, six or seven years now? I’ve had Bongo three or four now.

How old is your little beeper?
 

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