Might Be Adopting an Older Amazon

[texsize]

On another note, Jasper's being such a pain in the butt! She won't eat her leafy greens, but she'll eat almost everything else I offer her. Leafy greens are literally some of the healthiest veggies on the planet, and they come in so many different species and varieties, so I want to get her to start eating them.

Archie doesn’t go nuts over leafy greens either, but I don’t think they’re so critical, since he eats a wide range of vegetables anyway. Like, he loves beets...but hardly touches the greens. Same thing with radishes, and others.

From time to time, I get him a bagged kale salad mix, with different lettuces, spinach, and other crap in it. Every time, he’ll spend 5 minutes going at it...and then it goes in the garbage because he doesn’t go at it again and it goes bad.

Yes, I know I should be eating this myself, but we’re not here to discuss MY health. Only our birds.

Eating beets must make his poop look spectacular

 

[texsize]

Ira7 my wife is also from Venezuela.
Been to Colombia and the Amazon river never Venezuela.

 

[Teddscau]

Well, she bit me for the first time today. We were practicing putting her head through the harness, when she tripped, head still sticking through the harness, and she ended up dangling from her chin. So, I stuck my arm under her to hold her up while I "de-harnessed" her. She was very calm the whole time, and I only got a couple of scratches and a pinch. After she was freed she immediately went over to munch on some pellets. I hand fed her some of her favourites while she was at her dish so she wouldn't be upset from the event. A few minutes later I was hand feeding her again on her perch, and after she finished eating she got all pissy with me and started gnawing on my finger to let me know she was ticked off that I touched her earlier without her permission when she fell.

I'm going to start getting her used to towelling so she doesn't get too upset when I have to towel her for her physical with the local vet next week (I'm going to have blood work done on her at the expensive vet that's over an hour away from here a few weeks later). I got an estimate for all the blood work and other testing, and it'll cost around $650. Complete blood work (I think it's complete?) is around $250, which isn't too bad. I'm taking in a fecal sample today to see if she's shedding AGY in her feces.

 

[SailBoat]

Unless you plan on toweling your Amazon at home, I would not recommend that your towel her. Leave that for the Vet or Vet Tech, since, you will likely have to wait in the auto while they take her inside.

Your Goal is to be the saving, loving, kind individual that loads love and concern for her when they return her to you. They get to be the bad folks and you get to be the kind sweetheart!!!

 

[Teddscau]

I don't want to have to towel her, but she's definitely not going to enter the carrier willingly for the ride over. She's only stepped up for me twice so far, so I doubt she'll cooperate with me whatsoever. Any tips on grabbing her to stick her in the carrier? I don't want her to take a chunk out of me or be too angry with me afterwards. I've had my other birds long enough that occasionally restraining them doesn't hurt our relationship, but I imagine she'll be pretty upset with me when I have to stick her in the carrier.

 

[SailBoat]

When a carrier is only used to go to the Vet, it would be understandable that she would be unhappy! The carrier should be viewed as we are 'going some place.' We load our DYH Amazon into the carrier whenever we go out for a drive, trip to the cottage, visit family and of course, the trip to the Avian Medical Professional. The trips out and about, far outnumber the trips to the Vet.

Set the carrier some place close to the cage and allow it to be seen.

As you are working with your Amazon, take the time to walk by the carrier and further on and when you return also pass by the carrier. Then start setting your Amazon on the carrier and let her wander around it and with time claim it as her own.

Towel if you want, but understand, you have to be able to connect it with Good Things or it will be a negative.

 

[Teddscau]

Yeah, this carrier is just a temporary carrier until I get her a medium Celltei. Hopefully my parents will get me one for Christmas, since I've spent a ton of money so far on food and enrichment items for her, as well as on medical supplies I need for dealing with the AGY in the littles.

I just finished disinfecting the floors in the basement and sanitizing the dog carrier, and I've brought it up for Jasper to get used to. I also held a towel a couple of inches away from her in the cage while feeding her pomegranate, and wiggled the towel around a bit. She was very calm and didn't seem to mind it at all, so the next time I practice getting her used to towelling, I might try gently brushing it against her if she seems calm enough. I'm going to have to do the process fairly quickly since I'll only have a week or so before I have to catch her to bring her to the vet, but she should do quite well with it.

 

[wrench13]

Even though my vet refers to yellow shoulder amazons as "Amazon Lite", if Salty has a mind to do it, he can deliver a pretty good bite ( nothing like Jim's Amy when he nailed me a few times though or the many DYHA that hate me on sight for some reason). If you can approach Jasper with one hand from the rear, while the other hand distracts, you can use the forfinger and thumb to encircle LIGHTLY her neck below the head. WIth the other hand give her a perch to grab with the feet. Its pretty easy to do. I use that method to administer medicine to Salty when I have to. You can then put her into the carrier.

Towel training - lay a neutral color towel on a bed and put Jasper in the middle. Make a game out of lifting up the corners slowly tword her, maybe hide a treat under each corner. As you lift them up , "Surprise! for you Jasper!" At each session bring the corners of the towel closer and closer to her.

 

[Ira7]

Ira7 my wife is also from Venezuela.
Been to Colombia and the Amazon river never Venezuela.

Does she still have family there?

 

[Teddscau]

Thanks, Wrench. Her bite when she's "scolding" me definitely isn't as bad as the bites my littles give me (the littles aren't afraid to go all out because they know they can't seriously injure me), but I'd hate to find out what it's like to be bitten when she's truly angry with me.

I was definitely impressed by how calm and gentle she was when I had to help her when she fell through the harness yesterday, although I was quite surprised when she decided to put my finger in her mouth a few minutes later and start grinding it with her beak while growling at me. I decided to let her go ahead and gnaw on it for a few seconds before taking my finger out of her mouth. I usually just ignore my birds when they bite me since I usually deserve it, but if they're being little snots about it (you know, when they're doing it just because they can or because they're picking a fight with you when they're in a confrontational mood) I'll sometimes scold them. Little Noah doesn't do this anymore, but back when I first adopted him he'd sometimes go out of his way to pick a fight with me and start trying to injure me (he'd actually pause every few seconds to check to see how badly he was hurting me). And he'd start acting all snotty while doing it too. I'd give him at least a few warnings (which he usually ignored), but if he kept it up I'd sometimes grab him with my hand and clearly say, "BAD." He'd get this look on his face where it was obvious he'd forgotten how much bigger I was than him, and he realized he'd crossed a line. He'd immediately quit biting and would become very quiet and would be on his best behaviour for the next several minutes, and would sometimes gently touch me with his beak to show he was sorry. Now, Noah and Jasper are two very different individuals, so I doubt I'll ever need to scold her for being a biting fiend

She's definitely starting to become more vocal. She's actually started whistling a bit while the vacuum's going. She's also starting to shred the new toys I got for her, too. I'm working on teaching her to eat the new pellets I bought her as well.

I sent in some feces yesterday and the doctor didn't find any parasites or AGY. I'll send in some more next week to check for AGY again.

 

[wrench13]

Cool! she sounds like a very 'civilized' young lady. Outside of hormone season or when he is totally wound up, Salty is too, and will politely take my finger or hand and push it way, if he does not want to be interacted with. Ignore that, and all bets are off!

 

[Teddscau]

Man, I got blisters on my hand yesterday from disinfecting the basement floor, so no more cleaning for the next few days >_>

Today's chop day, so I'll have to spend a couple of hours making up a fresh batch for the kids (yes, I'm slow ). If I have enough time, I'll also bake the apple orchard spice bread I ordered from Things for Wings. I might even put a thin layer of chop in it. I'll probably have to make a new batch of mash on the weekend. I bought a couple of Kiddo Feedo silicone freezer trays for making fresh food for the dogs, but I've been using it for the birds' mash. I highly recommend this tray for freezing and storing food.

I might try training Jasper to eat frozen veggies. It's a pain having to make fresh chop every week, and now with Jasper here it takes even longer to make chop. Obviously she'd still get to eat fresh stuff, but it would be good if I could feed her frozen food as well, especially if I have to have someone else look after her for a while.

I'm definitely not looking forward to her being hormonal. All my other birds are opportunistic breeders (who aren't allowed to breed), so I've never experienced it before with any of the kids. Hopefully she just becomes flirty, and DOESN'T try to rip out everyone's jugulars. Not gonna lie, Noah would sometimes fly over to my mom and try to tear open her throat. Luckily he only weighs 31g, so he can't really cause too much damage. He's definitely far more gentle with the other birds than he is with us humans.

 

[Laurasea]

love the updates
Me, I don't do chop, I wash and give a quick cut to anything to big, the rest i let them use their beak on.

 

[Teddscau]

Okay, what the actual heck. I figured out why she's being pissy with me. If I have my hand in her cage and have at least three fingers tucked into my hand, she's fine. If I feed her with my thumb and forefinger, she's fine. If I have my hand open, even if my palm and fingers are covered in her favourite treats, she starts growling, freaks out, and starts grabbing me. Like, what the heck? I have a bunch of little bite impressions on the finger she decided to attack.

Hah...I guess I should calm down. It just ticked me off that she wanted to hurt me. It's not her fault, someone might've grabbed her in the past, or hit her cage with an open hand.

Okay...so now she's angry with my arm as well. I guess she's pissed about the other day when I boosted her up with my arm when she was dangling >_>

 

[Teddscau]

Okay, so she's still being a bit temperamental. I'm careful to make sure she's calm and okay with me interacting with her, and I always make it clear that I will never force her to do anything, and that I respect her. However, despite seeming calm, even when she's enjoying playing with me, she'll suddenly grab my arm or finger with her mouth and start doing this growling/hissing thing, and start pinching. Absolutely no warning. Her eyes aren't pinning, she's not getting overly excited, her body language doesn't indicate she's angry or anything...

The first few times she did it, it freaking hurt and she was being aggressive. The last... 4 or 5 times she's done it she's a lot more gentle and she barely applies any pressure. I thought she might be getting cranky because she's a brat at bedtime and will refuse to sleep (we've ordered a proper cover for her cage, so hopefully she'll start sleeping earlier when it gets in).

Like, do you think she might just be getting tuckered out or something? She was being kept in a fairly dimly lit room at her old home and received very little stimulation.

She also started doing this immediately after I had to stick my arm under her when she fell through her harness while we were doing desensitization training with it. So she might still be upset about that, but that was several days ago. I know with my little, if I do something that ticks them off, they might be angry with me for ten minutes, but would a bigger bird like Jasper be upset for this long? She honestly didn't seem upset by what had happened, and I even fed her a bunch of treats right after and she wasn't upset with me.

One last possibility is that she's challenging me and seeing how I react to being bitten. I haven't been reacting whatsoever. I mean my heart just about jumps out of my chest each time she does it, but I have a solid pokerface and I don't pull away from her or anything. Should I start doing that thing where you push into the bite?

What do you guys think is most likely?

Oh, on a good note, her one nostril's unclogged now. I'm still gonna get the vet to clean them out, though. Not sure why they're plugged up like that. Vitamin A deficiency maybe?

 

[noodles123]

Okay, so she's still being a bit temperamental. I'm careful to make sure she's calm and okay with me interacting with her, and I always make it clear that I will never force her to do anything, and that I respect her. However, despite seeming calm, even when she's enjoying playing with me, she'll suddenly grab my arm or finger with her mouth and start doing this growling/hissing thing, and start pinching. Absolutely no warning. Her eyes aren't pinning, she's not getting overly excited, her body language doesn't indicate she's angry or anything...

The first few times she did it, it freaking hurt and she was being aggressive. The last... 4 or 5 times she's done it she's a lot more gentle and she barely applies any pressure. I thought she might be getting cranky because she's a brat at bedtime and will refuse to sleep (we've ordered a proper cover for her cage, so hopefully she'll start sleeping earlier when it gets in).

Like, do you think she might just be getting tuckered out or something? She was being kept in a fairly dimly lit room at her old home and received very little stimulation.

She also started doing this immediately after I had to stick my arm under her when she fell through her harness while we were doing desensitization training with it. So she might still be upset about that, but that was several days ago. I know with my little, if I do something that ticks them off, they might be angry with me for ten minutes, but would a bigger bird like Jasper be upset for this long? She honestly didn't seem upset by what had happened, and I even fed her a bunch of treats right after and she wasn't upset with me.

One last possibility is that she's challenging me and seeing how I react to being bitten. I haven't been reacting whatsoever. I mean my heart just about jumps out of my chest each time she does it, but I have a solid pokerface and I don't pull away from her or anything. Should I start doing that thing where you push into the bite?

What do you guys think is most likely?

Oh, on a good note, her one nostril's unclogged now. I'm still gonna get the vet to clean them out, though. Not sure why they're plugged up like that. Vitamin A deficiency maybe?

I wouldn't fall victim to the "challenging me " mindset-- they really don't do that to challenge (It's more like, this is how I feel and I am parrot, therefore I am right. Since you disrespected my wishes, can you handle the consequences? lol- they may dislike you more if you can't read them/understand , but if you mess up and prompt biting, try to treat it like a poker game..UNLESS you know why they bit, and in that case do the opposite of what would be reinforcing for them.
They do note your reactions ...so it is still extremely important to react in a way that doesn't encourage biting (which is usually no reaction at all)..Do not think this is some sort of dominance game. It really isn't (even though I know it can seem that way). Move at your bird's pace- pushing it will break trust and set you back. It sounds like you are moving faster than your bird is ready to move-- and that can take months...so build trust and don't push. There is no point (it will only make the process longer).

Yes- she could 500% be upset about training weeks ago-- heck, months ago....these birds remember things like crazy and hold onto them.

The biggest thing is reading your bird well enough that they do not feel pushed to the point of biting.

 

[noodles123]

Okay, so she's still being a bit temperamental. I'm careful to make sure she's calm and okay with me interacting with her, and I always make it clear that I will never force her to do anything, and that I respect her. However, despite seeming calm, even when she's enjoying playing with me, she'll suddenly grab my arm or finger with her mouth and start doing this growling/hissing thing, and start pinching. Absolutely no warning. Her eyes aren't pinning, she's not getting overly excited, her body language doesn't indicate she's angry or anything...

The first few times she did it, it freaking hurt and she was being aggressive. The last... 4 or 5 times she's done it she's a lot more gentle and she barely applies any pressure. I thought she might be getting cranky because she's a brat at bedtime and will refuse to sleep (we've ordered a proper cover for her cage, so hopefully she'll start sleeping earlier when it gets in).

Like, do you think she might just be getting tuckered out or something? She was being kept in a fairly dimly lit room at her old home and received very little stimulation.

She also started doing this immediately after I had to stick my arm under her when she fell through her harness while we were doing desensitization training with it. So she might still be upset about that, but that was several days ago. I know with my little, if I do something that ticks them off, they might be angry with me for ten minutes, but would a bigger bird like Jasper be upset for this long? She honestly didn't seem upset by what had happened, and I even fed her a bunch of treats right after and she wasn't upset with me.

One last possibility is that she's challenging me and seeing how I react to being bitten. I haven't been reacting whatsoever. I mean my heart just about jumps out of my chest each time she does it, but I have a solid pokerface and I don't pull away from her or anything. Should I start doing that thing where you push into the bite?

What do you guys think is most likely?

Oh, on a good note, her one nostril's unclogged now. I'm still gonna get the vet to clean them out, though. Not sure why they're plugged up like that. Vitamin A deficiency maybe?

Also, if she meant it (in terms of biting), you would at least be bleeding ( a bite that bleeds is still not the worst that they could do if they really wanted to, but an indent is like a kind warning ). I mean, she means it, but she doesn't MEAN it...does that make sense? It's the difference between a slap in the face and a full-on fist fight.

 

[wrench13]

If she is anything like my yellow shoulder, this is playing rough. You need to establish with what is known as acceptable bite pressure. When she applies too much pressure, in a calm voice, say things like 'to much' or 'Easy there'. If she continues, its time to use shunning. Shunning involves putting her on a neutral place ( i use a handy chair back ) and then turning your back to her. No eye contact, NONE! not even out of the corner of your eye. And do this for 2 minutes maximum. You want her to associate the shunning with the bite. Any longer and she will forget the lesson. After 2 minutes, you can then pick her back up. But you must be 100% consistent doing this. Any time she gets too hard with the beak you need to do this, and probably will need to re-enforce this once in awhile. Do not put her back into her cage when shunning, she will get the idea that she needs to bite to get back into her cage. THats why the neutral place like a chair back is perfect. Amazons like to play rough, and they need to learn what is and is not acceptable. Rough play can easily spirol into over-stimulated Amazon, and you need to read her body language really well so you don't encourage that. When Salty is in a mood to rough play, I can tease him with my fingers, and put him on his back to tickle his chest. He loves that kind of play. But I need to watch carefully for over stimulation.

 

[Teddscau]

Thanks for the replies guys! I've started covering my hand in milk thistle seeds so she can eat out of my palm. She loves milk thistle seeds. She's has three options: a) ignore my hand; b) bite my hand and not be allowed to eat the seeds; or c) be gentle and get to eat a ridiculous number of seeds from my hand.

Yesterday she went to the vet. I had my parents catch her and put her in the carrier so she wouldn't get upset with me. Just a basic visit. Nothing too invasive, just had the tips of her nails clipped (I think her toe nail's been poking the callous on her left foot, making a little red mark), a mild wing trim to slow her down a bit so she doesn't fly too fast while we practice flying, had her nostrils unplugged, had her band removed, and a quick physical. I'll have to bring her in another time to get her microchipped (I forgot to ask about getting her microchipped before I got there).

After she got back I babied her and gave her plenty of milk thistle seeds, and gave her a special supper. She got sprouts, tangerine, apple, pomegranate, beets, peas, and corn. She seemed fine after the vet, but today she's a bit shyer than usual. I'll be giving her lots of her favourite treats for the next couple of days.

Today we're listening to music together to figure out what songs she likes. My parents are hopefully going to buy her a BeakBox for Christmas, and I wanna upload all her favourite songs on it. I'm not sure if I've found any music she likes yet. She tends to be quiet, and as I've mentioned before, she was kept in a dimly lit, quiet room in her old home. She's not as outgoing as you'd expect from an Amazon.

 

[SailBoat]

Happy to hear that the Vet visit went well.

Note: Regarding your question: "Oh, on a good note, her one nostril's unclogged now. I'm still gonna get the vet to clean them out, though. Not sure why they're plugged up like that. Vitamin A deficiency maybe?"

It is not totally uncommon for a nostril to be come clogged from time to time, especially during the Winter when humidity levels can become low. The most common reason for a clogged nostril is seed shells and like 'stuff' becoming logged. Vitamin A deficiency is never a reason. Treat for Vitamin A deficiency only when a Full Spectrum Blood examination defines a need!