Conure's aggression worse every day. Desperate for help.

[Anansi]

A slight setback here and there is nothing to worry about. As I told you before, that is to be expected. Focus instead on how far you have already come.

As for a 1 week "zero tolerance" policy, I'd lean away from that. If you decided to be a little quicker on the timeout trigger, that's fine. I just wouldn't make it a temporary thing. You need to be consistent. Any changes made to your approach should be with an eye toward relative permanence, in my opinion.

But you've yielded some fantastic results in a relatively short period of time. Stay the course, and the association between behavior and consequence will grow more and more solid.

Just to give you an example, Jolly will occasionally get overly excited and make a slight bite pressure mistake. (Never enough to break skin or anything.) When this happens, I'll say, "No, Jolly. Nice." in the warning tone I've developed for this very purpose. On the rare occasion that he'll do it again, he's off to timeout. But it is rare, because the association in his mind is solid. So more often, that warning tone will prompt him to gently beak my finger and look at me, waiting for me to tell him he'd again found the appropriate level of pressure.

If, however, he would bite down hard enough to cause more that just discomfort, he'd go on timeout right away.

As for your other questions, yes, I'm sorry to break it to you but it sounds like your girlfriend is his favorite. Lol!

And regarding the behavior you described, the observation given by Notdumasilook sounds solid to me. Though without actually seeing the behavior, it's just speculation.

(And seeing those pics, I'm really glad the biting behaviors have slowed down a bit.)

 

[GFGC]

Yeah, me too. Granted, those bites were from me ignoring them and just biting my lip while I struggled to find something to distract him with. I don't doubt he could still do that now, but I don't let him anymore. No more ignoring.

I think part of his issue is that he was in a cage with three or four other birds for who knows how long. He's probably used to squabbling over personal space, food, etc. We actually saw him biting the other birds at the store when they would try to come up to us. However, he didn't bite at ALL when taken out and didn't bite our fingers through the cage either. The other birds he was caged with were biting machines when we were picking out a bird, their little beaks digging right into us when we were holding them. He seemed the obvious choice because: A- he was gentle (at the time), and B- he clearly wanted our attention.

He was the boss in his cage at the store and he thinks he is here too.

 

[GFGC]

I'm kind of getting the idea after how bitey he was today that Charlie hasn't learned not to bite. He will still gladly do so. Hard.

Rather, I just am not sitting there letting him do it anymore. I don't think that's really the solution I'm after. I'd love for him to just get the idea that it's wrong.

 

[Anansi]

It's going to take time. And consistency. It starts with you not letting him do it. But from there it has to progress to association. That's a lot of learned behavior that you're working to undo.

And that doesn't happen overnight.

It's frustrating. And difficult. But most things worth getting are. You have to stop looking at this like there is a magical silver bullet that's going to immediately put his issues to rest. Doesn't work that way.

You might wind up being at this for months. But once you make that breakthrough... you will have earned it.

 

[Notdumasilook]

""And regarding the behavior you described, the observation given by Notdumasilook sounds solid to me. Though without actually seeing the behavior, it's just speculation.""

Yes if you read what I wrote I speculated based on Booger's behavior. Heck, there is tons of speculatin goes on in here.
And a lil more speculatin, take advantage of the times they want to play when you can.. especially when taming a birdie. iMHO it increases the bond. Just the fact that he invited you to play is a good sign. Birds want to be part of the flock, they want to be petted (preened) they want to interact with you stress free. In general they really do not want to bite... so whether you take 48 hours to tame your bird or 48 days, he will probably still come around.. maybe not because you did anything right but in spite of the things you did wrong. good luck

 

[Anansi]

Yes if you read what I wrote I speculated based on Booger's behavior. Heck, there is tons of speculatin goes on in here.

Oh, I know. My post wasn't a criticism of your speculation. I was actually agreeing with your take, but pointing out that we're both speculating in the absence of video footage.

 

[Notdumasilook]

I'm kind of getting the idea after how bitey he was today that Charlie hasn't learned not to bite. He will still gladly do so. Hard.

Rather, I just am not sitting there letting him do it anymore. I don't think that's really the solution I'm after. I'd love for him to just get the idea that it's wrong.

I get ya but based on what you wrote a few post ago, I don't think you have an aggressive conure at all. Nor do I think he has learned any bad behaviors. No offense intended here, but sounds like he has an aggressive owner. Before
you can get all cuddly with a bird he needs to trust you. You can not force trust. You earn it. I think you are skeerin the hell outa the poor bird.. unintentional, by tryin to force your affections on him. He is not a mind reader and doing all he knows to do... and that is bite you. Stay away from his back/wings....limit head scratches to brief ones to his cheek unless he rolls his head. Do NOT come from overhead to scratch his cheek...come from the side and tell him ur gonna rub his head. Keep it brief..watch his body language and do NOT force the issue. He has the right to say no.. u need to realize that.

 

[GFGC]

I understand where you're coming from, but that's not the case. The photos from before of my finger were from him stepping up willingly and without protest and then deciding to tear my finger apart. Before he gets scratches, I'll curl my finger up and ask him verbally if he wants them. If he does, he will roll his head down against my finger and twist his neck all around and be happy. I even take breaks to let him ask again to be sure I'm not overdoing it. If he doesn't want them, he will ignore or, of course, bite. The only things he gets FORCED to do are come off my shoulder if he bites my finger instead of stepping up or to go to his cage when he has been really bad. Both of those involve me grabbing him with my hand. He will crawl under my hand to get petted and rubbed. In the same session, however, he will freak out and start twisting the skin off my hand. It's like petting a land mine.

He has absolutely no fear of me or my girlfriend. He flies around the apartment to follow us and wants our attention constantly. It just has to be exactly the kind of attention he wants exactly when he wants it OR ELSE! I'm the one trying to mind read here.

He has the right to say "no" at any time, and can easily take off or scamper away if he's uncomfortable. He chooses to stick around and be vicious sometimes.

 

[BoomBoom]

Sorry this is happening, GFGC. Your girlfriend is fast turning into the favored human, and you the lesser favored one. You still have time to turn it around. Limit the gf's interactions to bird chores. Be the fun human to give him treats, scratches, training and reward, etc.

As for the biting, that's problem number two. Just follow the advice given to you. There are many so pick an approach that suits you. Bottom line is, he needs to know you dislike biting, and there are consequences for doing so. I personally prefer and have seen obvious results from time outs on his perch or locked in his cage depending on the gravity of the offense. They learn quickly. Just be clear in your signal (NO BITE), be consistent, and be gentle but stern, calm but serious.

Good luck!

 

[Notdumasilook]

Better yet, give the bird to the girlfriend. if trust is not the issue then maybe he just does not like you. Cases like that have been know to happen. My adopted "Booger" was known to be a hellion with the couple that had him before...for over a year. And other than a few "blips" at the beginning where he tested my limits he has blossomed in to a hella sweet bird. My biggest complaint now is that he wants to have "sugar" contest with my amazon..seeing which one can give me more. Makes it tough on this old man to get my coffee down in the morning, and makes putting them to bed an extended event. Ive concluded that he just did not like that couple... that, and that they were clueless. Years ago, I got a throwaway cherry headed conure. He seemed so docile and laid back. He would fly from his cage, land on the couch near me... ease over next to me.. then leap and attack my ear with everything he had...which was substantial. He was a hard case and it took me over 2 weeks to establish my limits with him. He never was a cuddle freak but he became very pleasant and sweet.. he ended up my daughters pet. He was my tuffest challenge and wore me out, but on the bright side I got ear piercings free of charge.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

This is my first post in this thread so I'll just be 'generic' rather than trying to provide any 'solution'.

For me, in my experience - birds read you body language

Take for example - Peaches - she has always hated traveling and is easily stressed by sudden movement. The night she injured her wing, she was behaving too calmly IMO. The vet asked me how I was handling it. I told her I was too busy trying to get Peaches cared for that I didn't have time to worry. The vet said my calmness likely calmed Peaches. Which makes sense, I worry each year about vet visits - hence why she hasn't adjusted.

They sense fear, anxiety, tension and adoration. Never doubt that. Sometimes I think they read us better than we read ourselves.

 

[GFGC]

After spending a weekend with a lot of time with both my girlfriend and I, he seemed to pretty easily divide his time between us which was a relief. By Saturday evening he was happy to sit on my arm and be petted while she sat nearby. He interacts a little differently with her (he squeaks for her a lot, but her voice is much higher and he seems to enjoy that), but this weekend gave me hope that she might not necessarily be the favorite just yet, in spite of her long hair! It might very well be that he doesn't get to see her much, while I'm here with him all day.

And he will gladly bite her too if given the chance, she's just a lot more afraid of him so she's rarely in the danger zone with her hands.

I'm wondering, how does one correctly play with a bird who bites so hard? We had a decent session over the weekend where he would chase me and is put both my hands over him and he would just sit there and bury himself between them. It's fun, but his first move is always to bite really hard. I rarely get a chance to enjoy some nibbles before a good chomp.

Learning every day with this little creature!

 

[Anansi]

Same deal. If he bites hard, game over and timeout. Of course you want to skip ahead to where he's bite pressure trained and you can just have fun with him, but this is how you get there. Once you're consistent enough, for long enough, he'll understand the connection between biting hard and timeouts.

 

[Notdumasilook]

Same deal. If he bites hard, game over and timeout. Of course you want to skip ahead to where he's bite pressure trained and you can just have fun with him, but this is how you get there. Once you're consistent enough, for long enough, he'll understand the connection between biting hard and timeouts.

Question..
When you grab him to put him back in his cage for his "time out" do you allow him to bite in protest until released in to his cage? If so I'd think that would be counter-productive... opinions?

 

[Anansi]

No. You never allow him to bite you. I mean, he may manage to sneak one or two through, but it should never be because you allowed it.

One hand holds him, the other controls the beak. Timeout is the consequence. If it happens immediately after you've told him "no", he'll eventually get it. And once he gets it, it'll just be a matter of exactly how stubborn your guy is. Some take longer to adjust their attitudes than others. As I said, it could take anywhere from a few days to a few months.

Consistency.

 

[GFGC]

At times he can sneak a few in. For example, removing him from my shoulder or if he is being put back in his cage while perched on my finger and decides he doesn't want to go. However, when I have both hands free, one holds his beak and the other is around his body so he can't let me have it all the way there. It's really hard to avoid sometimes though. He's so fast! Usually though he's so surprised to have been teleported from wherever he was back to his cage that he kind of just freezes in my hand and I can place him on his perch in his cage.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I find Skittles responds well to a firm "No biting". When he is play biting - I call it "nibbling" so that he knows that when he hears "you little nibbler" he knows it's okay. I find him to be VERY responsive to vocal commands and target training with finger snaps and pointing. BUT, I cannot stress enough the importance of CONSISTENCY and REPETITION. You cannot back down or stop. You HAVE to continue it or otherwise it will be pointless.

 

[Alioop]

I have 2 Pineapple Conures. We got them when they were down to 2 hand feelings a day. They now about 3 months old and have taken to biting. They actually "look" angry...tail feathers spread out, feathers fluffed in the head etc. There are so many contridicting messages out there. Some say don't grab the beak, that they have no understanding of punishment. I read you ignore the bites and re-assert yourself as head of the flock by making them "step up" over and over in a string but not loud voice. They love it when you yell, they yell too so they get positive reinforcement. I am wondering if it's some kind of teenage type behavior...asserting themselves so to speak. Any ideas??

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

One of the 'key' distinctions that has to be made is differentiating "play biting" from aggressive biting. Some people may say 'you can train your bird not to bite' - that's not exactly accurate. You can train them (and should) to not 'aggressively' bite. But birds use their beaks for more than just biting or eating. They use it to 'test' areas and for gripping and grabbing things. When Skittles climbs onto my finger, he grabs my finger with his beak and grabs onto my finger with his feet. He uses his beak to 'steady' my finger. Some may say that is biting. It's not.

It's not difficult, in my opinion, to know what aggressive biting is - it's one of those "you know it when you feel it".

Play biting, which I call 'nibbling' is more like a 'pinch or a tickle'. You feel it, but it doesn't really hurt. Sometimes they may get carried away when play biting. A simple re-focusing works for me with Skittles.

 

[Anansi]

I have 2 Pineapple Conures. We got them when they were down to 2 hand feelings a day. They now about 3 months old and have taken to biting. They actually "look" angry...tail feathers spread out, feathers fluffed in the head etc. There are so many contridicting messages out there. Some say don't grab the beak, that they have no understanding of punishment. I read you ignore the bites and re-assert yourself as head of the flock by making them "step up" over and over in a string but not loud voice. They love it when you yell, they yell too so they get positive reinforcement. I am wondering if it's some kind of teenage type behavior...asserting themselves so to speak. Any ideas??

When I mention grabbing the beak, I think you're getting the wrong idea. It's not punishment. You're not applying pressure. You're not doing it with intent to harm. You are simply stopping the bird from biting you. You are taking control of the situation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ignoring the bites only makes it that much harder for your bird to understand that he is doing something undesirable. Look at it this way. If a 2 year old child decided smacking you in the eye was funny, would you just sit there and take it? Or would you let him know that his behavior was not acceptable? He doesn't know any better until you help him to understand.

You don't yell. That bit of advice was dead on. Some birds do find the yell amusing, and seek to reproduce the effects by reapplying the stimulus... same as any scientist worth their salt might.

So you control the beak and put him on timeout. Do it enough times and they associate the behavior with the action.

As for your specific situation, are your Conure's weaned, yet? Are you training them together, or separately? Are they yet hand tame? Do they bite more frequently near their cage? Around a particular person? Around each other?

The more detail you provide, the better able we are to help you.