Green Cheek Conure - Color/Genetics question

[Compadrre]

So my little guy had these two dots when I brought him home @ about 5-6 months old he had one yellow dot on each wing & he's now about 8-9 months old, molting & yesterday I just noticed there are two dots on each wing now! His neck feathers cover them up most of the time.

He is such a strange color, he has so much black on the tips of his feathers. I have never seen another Turquoise Green Cheek with yellow dots like this, nor have I seen one with quite so much black either. He also has some green on him, mixed in with the turquoise, even on the some of same feathers that are mostly blue. Doesn't show up very good in the pictures, but I am just so curious about his color & perfectly weird it is.

Any thoughts? On what's up with the extra black on him, or how he has yellow dots like that? If they've multiplied, I am kind of wondering if those dots will turn into a line on the edge his wing there, if that makes sense...

My other green cheek is a regular one, I've never had a color mutation bird before, as he gets older will that black on the tips of his feather go away eventually? Does he just have it because he's still a baby? I'm hoping he stays just the way he is, but the multiplying yellow dots are making me question things.

I wish I had the breeders info, I'd love to know what his parents looked like, but I got him at a store & highly doubt they will they share that info. If any body has pics to share of "maybe they looked like this" those are welcome too!

 

[Rozalka2]

I'm afraid these black tips might mean that he's not healthy. Not sure about the yellow feathers, especially because it is pretty strange because normally the turquoise mutation doesn't allow such bright yellow color to appear

 

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Maybe he's a hybrid? Maybe his great great grandma was part sun conure or something? I never noticed my other green cheek growing, after I brought her home, but Yoshi is just a little smaller than her everywhere. Feet, head, body, tail, beak. Just barely smaller.

He seems very healthy to me, he is very active & bright everyday, feathers look good. His sibling in the store, was a carbon copy of him.

The guy in the store, only said there is a name for those yellow dots, but didn't know what it was. I was thinking pied (was probably what he was thinking) but he doesn't really fall under that category either. Does he?

I googled pied green cheek, this one although all that pale color, has red almost in the same spot as he has the yellow. Could he be some weird kind of dark, pied turquoise? Or would him being a hybrid of some kind make more sense?

*I know quite a bit about horse genetics (more than most horse people anyway) & nothing about the bird variety.

These guys would have black beaks & feet, they seem to have similar color patterns going on, with different colors of course.

Again 100% nube to bird genetics, but those are the only two things I am thinking would make sense. Either hybrid, or pied of some kind weird color mix. The 2 dots turning into 4 just is so super weird to me. Green cheeks aren't supposed to change colors, like sun conures do as they get older. So what is up with him getting another yellow feather there?

Also, I just googled black tipped feathers on green cheeks & this came up.

"Black-tipped feathers on a green-cheeked conure can be a normal part of their development. As these birds mature, they often replace their baby feathers with adult plumage, which may include dark tips. This is particularly common during molting periods when old feathers are shed and new ones grow in."

So maybe they are just baby feathers, is what I take away from that paragraph...google also hates me & lies to me often. That's why I came here first instead.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Check maranatha aviaries website for great pictures of the different turquoise combination mutations.
Its sometimes hard to tell for sure a babys exact mutation make up because baby feathers are often a slightly different color from their adult feathers.

The opaline turquoise mutation does have some visible yellow but you only posted pictures from the birds back so it's hard to tell if there are any other mutations going on. Turquoise is an autosomal recessive (vs sex linked recessive like opaline) meaning both male and female babies must have 2 turquoise genes to be turquoise. It doesn't carry the normal gene for green cheek coloring.

I don't think your baby is visually opaline (aka "yellow sided") because opalines are quite a bit lighter in their breast area than regular turquoise. A female that's visually opaline has one opaline gene on her one x chromosome and a male has two opaline genes, one on both his two x chromosomes. Post more pictures from the front. A lot more can be ruled out or in by the color of his breast, throat and sides

Your baby may be violet because the turquoise is quite dark but his feathers don't really have a blue-violet cast to them like violets do, but it's possible. Violet turquoise birds can have more black in their wing feather edged but all those black edges don't look right. It may be from a nutritional deficiency when the feathers were developing and his adult feathers will look more normal. I really think you should have him examined by an avian vet. None of us are qualified to give medical advice.

The dark turquoise feathers COULD have black edges just from being ratty and physically damaged. Baby parrots are often ratty looking because they are clumsy and aren't great at grooming themselves. Blue colored feathers in particular do not have blue pigment. Blue is called a structural color which means that the molecules are arranged in such a way that they appear blue when exposed to light rays. If you take a blue feather and crush it some of the structure gets disrupted and the feather starts to just look dark. If this is the reason his new feathers won't have that ratty black edge but try to see an avian vet to rule out other reasons.

Again, post more pictures showing his front side.

 

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Yellow dot

Yellow dot

 

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Pics of his belly

 

[Rozalka2]

He definitely isn't yellow sided turquoise and definitely it's not pied like you suggested. The yellow feather isn't a result of any mutation because turquoise doesn't allow it. And he's not a hybrid because mutations in hybrids work the same (and there are no mutations hybrids if there are doubts)

 

[Compadrre]

Yoshi is like ADHD he's super spoiled with tons of toys to keep his mouth busy. He's very mouthy & loves shredders & stuff he can run through his beak, like confetti paper. But based on recent feathers I've found, he's definitely not figured out how to preen right yet. He goes through so many toys, I've almost spent a 3rd of what I paid for the bird, replacing toys...in just 3 months. I am gonna start making my own.

Diet is something I wanted to bring up too...

Because he is a baby & bringing a bird home from a store is always super stressful I didn't want to mess with his diet at all. Though I have recently introduced him to fruits as treats. He was very stressed in the store, and for weeks after I brought him home. But he is pretty well into a happy routine now & I am 100% sure he is not stressed anymore, settled in and a happy little fellow. I would feel comfortable trying to change his diet now

The store was only feeding him zuPreem pellets. I have heard the pellets are better than a seed diet, but it has been very long time since I did any research on a proper diet for my guys. Can somebody detail, exactly how much of what they should be getting? I always get confused on the percentages. Teaspoons/table spoons etc, would be extra helpful. His bowl is kinda small I'd guess say 1 cup would fit in there & he empties it about every 3 days. (I think)


A long time ago I tried to change my other birds (Tech) diet of only seeds. I got her from a different store & they only fed seeds there. But she is the pickiest bird on the planet. She is freaked out by anything new. When I tried switching her to a healthier diet, she looked in her bowl & refused to eat. She lost weight fast, I panicked and quit trying. Gave her the old stuff again & she bounced right back. (Yes I tried mixing it in slow, but she saw new stuff in there & went ahhhh no!!!! Scary!!!) I have tried different ways, with different foods, over the years & while she'll eat fruit with me, the second I try putting any new stuff in her bowl, I may as well throw the entire bowl away, cause she wants nothing to do with it.

However, things are different now. Now she eats what ever she sees Yoshi eating (even if I put in her bowl! YAY!) & Yoshi will eat what ever I offer. If he's not sure, you can put it up to your mouth & pretend to eat it & he's like omg give me that right now! He begs like a dog.

So I am 100% game for a complete bird diet make over for both of them. I am 100% aware that neither of them currently have a good diet & I would very much like to change that, now that I can.

Again, I have more experience with horses, than birds...but I had a horse once, that would eat his own poop & then the shavings in his stall. The vet said vitamin deficiency. Changing his diet definitely helped that horse. I have noticed Yoshi doing the same thing. So I am very eager to change his diet & see what happens.

Based on this conversation so far, I am guessing the black is a combination of baby feathers, & diet. Perhaps some over preening as well & being bad at it.

Please continue the mutation conversation though too. I don't think he's opaline, too dark. Right?

 

[Compadrre]

He definitely isn't yellow sided turquoise and definitely it's not pied like you suggested. The yellow feather isn't a result of any mutation because turquoise doesn't allow it. And he's not a hybrid because mutations in hybrids work the same (and there are no mutations hybrids if there are doubts)

So then what is up with that yellow? & why are they multiplying? Thoughts....?

 

[Compadrre]

If you take a blue feather and crush it some of the structure gets disrupted and the feather starts to just look dark. If this is the reason his new feathers won't have that ratty black edge but try to see an avian vet to rule out other reasons.

If that's the case, that would make a lot of sense to me.

The store had one toy in their cage with the two of them that were left. & he is sooooooo mouthy, sometimes we call him munch mouth. Which is why I give him so many toys, he's very active & playful & destroys them all. He was preening himself A LOT when I first got him. Not pulling them out though. But way more than Tech does on the regular & did so in a slightly more aggressive way. Like chomping on them vs running them through his mouth. Now I'd say he does it about the same amount as Tech & it's more like he tongues them instead of biting them. He plays with his toys instead of his feathers now. So that would make a lot of sense to me.

He is starting to molt & I have seen some edges that are not right at all, shape wise. But again, he's really calmed down & doesn't do what he used to when he first got here. So I am hoping that him molting & changing his diet will have a positive result.

 

[Rozalka2]

So then what is up with that yellow? & why are they multiplying? Thoughts....?

I honestly don't know, as someone who knows mutations well, I can only say that it's not the reason. We need someone who knows this stuff better than me

 

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I honestly don't know, as someone who knows mutations well, I can only say that it's not the reason. We need someone who knows this stuff better than me

Hhhmmm very interesting! Well he's my little perfect weirdo I'll add more pics if he gets more!

 

[Compadrre]

Rozalka, do you agree with DonnaBudgie about his black? (below) At least that this is a possible cause?

"Blue colored feathers in particular do not have blue pigment. Blue is called a structural color which means that the molecules are arranged in such a way that they appear blue when exposed to light rays. If you take a blue feather and crush it some of the structure gets disrupted and the feather starts to just look dark."

If this is true, that would make a lot of sense to me, due to his behavior & over + slightly aggressive preening when he got here. After further inspection of feathers still on him, most of them appear slightly damaged where the black is. (Just not perfect, like Tech's are.)

 

[Rozalka2]

Rozalka, do you agree with DonnaBudgie about his black? (below) At least that this is a possible cause?

I know too little on this subject, sorry. But I think she/he knows this stuff better than me

 

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So I started google-ing lol for anybody else interested in what DonnaBudgie said....

hhhmmm time for a science experiment!

https://www.si.edu/stories/when-blue-bird-not-blue

The Science behind Blue Birds – Birdology

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I swear I don't make this stuff up!

 

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I swear I don't make this stuff up!

I didn't think you were! But got curious about the science behind that. Wanted to know more. How super duper weird that reading was! Very interesting stuff. Thank you!

So I did a little science experiment since he is loosing feathers, I have been saving a few. I took one of his blue feathers that also had some grey on it & put it under a uv light (in one of the articles I found it said it would turn "uniformly grey" when exposed to uv light) & in that light it went 100% grey! Then I took a roller & ran it over the blue to try to "damage" the color structure....it turned black! How very interesting!

*UPDATE on the yellow dots* He has another one! Only on his left wing (as of right now) half way down his wing on the very edge just like the rest, but about where the flight feathers start to come out. You can only see it when he stretches. I'll see if I can get a pic, but that requires a second person to take that photo. I'll have to hold him like you do when you trim their wings.

 

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Also...he has one tail feather coming in right now, that has green on the very tip! I have never seen a turquoise GC have green on the end of their grey tail. He is really doing some weird color changes!

I don't remember him having any green on day 1 (after getting him) but by the end of day 2, the tip of his tail was completely destroyed from the bars in his cage. I got him a bigger cage a few days later & while setting it up, planed specifically for tail space. So I am just dying for him to get new tail feathers.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

He looks like a happy healthy regular turquoise to me. I wouldn't worry about a few odd yellow feathers.

 

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For anybody interested in the black tipped feathers question...here's Yoshi when I first got him & 6 months later.