Help!! Please!!! Help!!!

[BirdyMomma]

Birdman, thank you for your advice. THAT BIRD, is Wingnut, and he is my baby too. Knuckles and Loki are both his roomates

I don't know if I mentioned, but I am hard pressed for another spot in the house. Our home was greatly affected by Hurricane Sandy, and our 'marvelous' contractor did not finish. Most parts of the main house are quite cold and drafty. If it wasnt 12 degrees, it would be a lot easier. Also, we have two dogs ( the ones that killed Bacci) and their area is the rest of the house. That being said, we will likely move him tomorrow, when we are both home, even though the vet who tested him told me that "the damage has probably already been done".

The vets office called this morning and cancelled this mornings appointment because of the snow, and I cant get there till Saturday . I have requested that the main doctor from the practice call me (not the one I saw) because I have questions and fears that have not been adequately addressed....it's been three hours, no call.

The test was given two weeks ago. My three birds have been together all that time, spent time on each others play areas, shared toys. I am dreading the news that they are all infected. I have not been handling them as I usually do (a lot), and I make every attempt to hold Loki & Knuckles first, THEN Wingnut. I have been even more vigilant with poop cleaning than usual. I don't know what else to do.

 

[Birdman666]

I'm sorry. That was a typo.

And that was written without reading the rest of this, before I realized you didn't have quarantine space...

Personally, I am praying for a false positive...

 

[RavensGryf]

My a-vet just happened to mention the other day (I wasn't talking about you) but a positive PBFD test will only show during "active" virus shedding. During carrier state, it will show as a false negative. That was not what I wanted to hear!

NOT to say anything negative, but I just wanted to relay this info so that you'll have this to think about realistically as you plan what you're gonna do. Also as some people have stated, PBFD is a hardy and hard to eradicate virus unfortunately. The Bornavirus (PDD) is not as hardy in the environment.

I know this is a nightmare and as heartbreaking as can be. Hang in there, and many hugs to you BirdyMomma.

 

[BirdyMomma]

Absolutely no need for anyone to apologize for anything. I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you all.

 

[lquan]

I just started reading this thread just now. I am so sorry to hear this happen to you. I feel depress and sick just reading this thread.

May I ask what prompted you to have your birds test for PBFD in the first place? Did Wingnut show any symptom of either desease? If Wingnut is not showing any symptom, I would get a second opinion and hope that there is a chance of cross contamination in the blood test.

My thoughts and prayers are for you and and birds.

 

[RavensGryf]

May I ask what prompted you to have your birds test for PBFD in the first place? Did Wingnut show any symptom of either desease?

A bird does not have to "show" signs of disease to be harboring a deadly virus. The bird can be beautiful on the outside! That's WHY it's important to test.

It's just good practice to get this and other viral tests done when you first get a bird. Whether it be from a breeder you trust, or especially when you don't really know the bird's origins.

 

[Sadie13]

I'm sorry, i am just seeing this thread and i want to say i am so sorry you are going through this and i couldn't even imagine how you must be feeling....

i will be keeping you and your flock in my thoughts and prayers, you are a great bird mommy and no matter what happens they will all have wonderful, fulfilling lives with you in them.

i am one of those nuts that believes that everything happens for a reason, and all of your birds found their way to you for that reason.

 

[BirdyMomma]

Sadie, you have been in my thoughts also. With the coming arrival of your cockatoo, I just want you to keep abreast of this situation we are having.

I did not know that "old world" birds like cockatoos, and other birds from that part of the world are more succeptable to PBFD, than are "new world" parrots, like my Loki and Wingnut. I didn't even know how serious a condition PBFD is.

After speaking with the veterinarian (the head one, who was much more thorough than the one who examined my babies) she alluded to the fact that it was likely that the virus was brought in with Knuckles. It's no guarantee, and we are having her checked on Saturday....she may test negative.... but I was thinking of you, and your Eclectus, and I just want to urge you to take every precaution possible when introducing your new baby into your home. I can not stress it enough.

The guilt I am feeling at having possibly put my birds health at risk is indescribable. The constant sanitizing, changing clothes and washing up is overwhelming. So please, just be cautious, and careful. I know how much you are looking forward to your new baby, and I am so happy for you, but please use my situation as a reference for safeguarding your Eclectus, and yourself from this heartbreak.

 

[getwozzy]

I'm so sorry you're going through this-- my heart is breaking for you!!

HUGS!!!!

 

[Anansi]

Michele, I know my words probably won't change anything for you in this regard, but there is truly nothing for you to feel guilty about. You brought Knuckles into your home with the best, and most loving, of intentions. You didn't know. (Assuming, of course, that Knuckles is indeed the carrier.)

As several members have pointed out, the tests often read falsely negative unless the disease is in a more active phase. So basically, any person who looks to welcome another bird into their household is potentially running the same risk. (Save for someone who knows a breeder very well, or IS a breeder him/herself.)

All that you're "guilty" of is inviting these birds into your family and into your heart, Michele. Nothing more. Nothing less. We should all aspire to guilt of such crimes.

 

[Jumpingtadpoles]

Birdymomma, I feel so very sorry for you, and your babies. I can't imagine what your going through. I can't even try.
This is so tragic, but so many members have given exactly the advice I would want to give you.
Keep your head up.
Keep reading before you decide what to do.
Love your baby for the life he has, not the death that will happen.
If and when your fids pass, try and honour them, and make that step in life comfortable, loving, and as peaceful as possible.
I think all of us should consider that situation, and how we would handle it.
I think I would shed a lot of tears. And stay away from other bird people.
And after my other birds were tested, I would look for temporary foster home(s) for my other fids, until the ill one(s) pass.
Geez. What a horrible shoe to wear.
I can't believe I haven't considered that, and how I would handle it.
Your an amazing parent to your birds, don't think otherwise. You have us by your side.

Again, I'm so very sorry for what you are going through.
Xoxo

 

[noblemacaw]

First of all my heart just hurt so much for you because I know what you are going though. I have been in your shoes and I have never admitted or told anyone else my story.

I have never posted this story on any form. I don't talk about what happened to my flock because the bird community tends to treat very badly when a member's flock has a contagious deadly virus. You are no longer accepted and are very much shunned. That is what happened to me but I hope by now after the years have passed this has gotten better. It is the fear that make people treat each other so poorly.

I got my Noble macaw Mihijo in 1995, then I got my Eclectus Joaquin in 2001 then I flew out to San Diego in 2002 to get my Illiger's macaw Diego. The three boys made the perfect flock for me. I was very happy with my boys.

In 2004 one evening when I weighed Joaquin he was his usual 348 grams. The next morning he did not look right and he weighed 218 grams. I called the clinic right away when it opened and told them I was bringing in Joaquin on a ER basis. Because I acted quickly I saved Joaquin's life because he was severely dehydrated and very sick. This happened OVERNIGHT!!

Joaquin's diagnosis was PDD or what is now called Borna Virus. Normally this virus kills Eclectus very quickly but because I got him help so quickly Joaquin did not die. I had to learn how to give him injections and had to administer two types of oral meds. His care was so intense it bonded us much closer together. Joaquin's high level of care was worth it to me because I was able to have two more wonderful years with him. It was when the virus finally moved to his brain is what ended up killing him.

Even though Joaquin lived in the same room (my downstairs is all open) his cage was across the room from the macaws and I practiced taking care of the macaws first then cleaning and taking care of Joaquin last. I always washes his things separate from the macaws and his food source was separate as well. As with you because they all were in the same space the damage was already done but I still did my best to keep Joaquin separate from my macaws.

Joaquin's necropsy revealed COD as PDD. I was so depressed when he died I didn't leave my home for 9 days. I just could not function and I was very very heart broken. Joaquin meant so much to me, he was my best friend and my companion.

Both my macaws remained healthy and I didn't worry about it anymore. Because I was not involved in the bird community anymore I no longer took my Macaws out to socialize.

In June 2011 Diego my Illiger's macaw had a fatal stroke. The necropsy did not revel the clot because it was probably so small it could not be found. I didn't even know Diego had heart disease. He was flighted and flew everyday. His loss was so sudden and unexpected I took his death so hard I had a severe asthma attack in the clinic after the doctor told me they lost him.

Mihijo my Noble macaw had a heart attack two months before Valentino was due to come home. Mihijo would of been 18 years old the following February. HIS necropsy revealed he had PDD. Even though it was dormant, not active and he never had any symptoms of it the necropsy revealed he did carry it.

I was in shock. I almost cancelled delivery of Valentino because I felt I was a horrible caretaker for the parrots and I could not bring myself to take another bird. I literately freaked out and just knew my home was too dangerous for any parrot because of what I had went though with Joaquin. After much investigation it was deduced that Joaquin was passed the PDD as a chick, way before he even came home.

Joaquin's cage was given to a friend after I sanitized the hell out of it. To this day none of her birds ever got the PDD. Her conure is between 50 and 55 years old. A CONURE, medium size bird is over 50 years old. Both Diego and Mihijo's cage are stainless steel. I was able to totally clean them and sanitized them three times before I finally let them sit empty. I threw out all perches and toys and sanitized metal toys. I even threw out their harnesses.

I do have Valentino now. I did take delivery of him because I had to work though the logic of loosing my whole flock to heart disease and PDD. I am crying right now because I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THOUGH. I can't help but want to help you though this difficult time because it is very hard. It will be a long hard road.

I am extremely grateful for the time I had with my boys. I do not hold remorse anymore because they are all dead now. I will always miss them. I will never forget them. I gave them the best life they could of had. They were loved, wanted and well cared for. It is NOT THEIR or MY FAULT this disease came into out home and killed them. Please do not blame yourself. You need to be strong for your baby Wingnut because he needs you right now. I refuse to blame myself because they are gone now. Please never blame yourself. I really wish I could hug you right now.

Please take care of yourself and your family (human, feathered and fur)

 

[RavensGryf]

@noblemacaw
I too had my first Bronze Winged Pionus (before Raven) pass from PDD. This was not happening!! I was the one who was SO disease paranoid!! I knew how common viral diseases are, and took crazy steps to prevent it ever getting to MY birds.

I bought Adrion from a bird store. I was so excited that they had Bronze Wing Pionus that all my precautions went out the window right then and there!! I found out later that they purchased her from a parrot broker. But even if it were a trusted aviary - studies show, and vets will tell you (I've heard this a couple times) that it is suspected that upwards of 40% of all aviaries have at least a bird, if not several who is a Bornavirus carrier!! That's a lot. To date, there is no accurate test on a live bird, that is how it gets (and stays) in the population. It's truly a concern for all of us! Thankfully the Bornavirus (PDD) is NOT very stable in the environment, and usually takes direct transmission in order to contract it. My birds were never that close to each other.

Here comes the rant... :11:
I can see how people acted like you were a leper. Out of fear like you said. BUT, what hypocrites!!
ANYONE is at risk for PDD, PBFD, Polyoma, etc.
*Anyone who has ever had their bird around ANY other bird (even healthy looking ones), *anyone who has ever gotten a rehomed bird whether it be from a private home or a rescue, or to a lesser degree a reputable breeder, *anyone who has ever shopped at a bird fair/birdmart (notorious for disease transmission), *anyone who has ever bought toys or bird products from places where there are other birds or bird grooming service (dust particles on everything)...etc. IS AT RISK!!!

I try to be as careful (you can call it paranoid) as possible, but still there is going to be a certain degree of risk which we can't control.
As I said on another post, we can't completely live in a bubble, or stop driving for fear of a fatal car wreck, etc. We do the best we can with the knowledge that we have.

Thanks for reading :- )

 

[BirdyMomma]

I am so scared of what is going to happen.

 

[strudel]

I'm so sorry.... There's nothing I can say to make you feel better, but you can and will deal with it. My cat had feline aids and he eventually succumbed to it. They said he probably got it in the cat orphanage before I'd even got him (or when he was living rough before he went to the orphanage).

There's no point feeling guilty, you had no way of knowing he has it, and you aren't responsible for the existence of disease in our lives. Maybe his immune system is compromised and that's why he's succumbed. I hope your other birds are ok.

 

[Anansi]

@Noblemacaw: Thank you for sharing so personal and painful a story as what happened with your beloved birds Mihijo, Joaquin and Diego. My heart goes out to you, as I can only imagine how difficult it was dealing with not only the grief of their passing, but also the natural (and unfounded) guilt that comes from such a situation and the fear-inspired ostracism of the parrot community.

It speaks to the resilience of your character that you were able to recover from so harrowing an ordeal to take on a new flock, and I greatly suspect that your current family of fids is all the better for it.

@BirdyMomma: I see this same capacity for resilience in you as well, Michele, judging from what you've posted in your other, related thread. And we'll all be here for you every step of the way.

ANYONE is at risk for PDD, PBFD, Polyoma, etc.
*Anyone who has ever had their bird around ANY other bird (even healthy looking ones), *anyone who has ever gotten a rehomed bird whether it be from a private home or a rescue, or to a lesser degree a reputable breeder, *anyone who has ever shopped at a bird fair/birdmart (notorious for disease transmission), *anyone who has ever bought toys or bird products from places where there are other birds or bird grooming service (dust particles on everything)...etc. IS AT RISK!!!

I try to be as careful (you can call it paranoid) as possible, but still there is going to be a certain degree of risk which we can't control.
As I said on another post, we can't completely live in a bubble, or stop driving for fear of a fatal car wreck, etc. We do the best we can with the knowledge that we have.

Thanks for reading :- )

@RavensGryf: And thank YOU for posting! What you said is so very SCARY, yet so very true.

This thread has been very informative as well as supportive. I've learned so much just reading all of your varied accounts. Again, thank you all for sharing.

And thank you, Michele, for starting this thread. Because, as much as we are endeavoring to help you through this most difficult time, you are also helping many of us who, like you, initially didn't know so much about either Borna virus or PFBD.

 

[jenphilly]

Noble - I am so sorry for your story and even worse that people treated you poorly because of it! I am even more sorry for the behavior of the humans you thought were friends, I hope you know you have a much more supportive crowd around here now.

BirdyMomma - My heart goes out to you for how long the next few weeks will be, but I'll keep fingers and toes crossed that the retest comes back with better news. But, from all I've read in your posts, I know you will love and care for your babies whatever may come. Tho there is little any of us can say to really help or make things better, know that you've lots of supportive shoulders and ears here whenever you need to share.

 

[BirdyMomma]

It is so nice to know so many caring, thoughtful and compassionate people. Having birds in our lives must make us better people or something

 

[Jumpingtadpoles]

BirdyMomma, it's you. Having you in our lives had made us better. The support you give. The information you share.
Thank You for being there for us. You are an important person in the community, one that helps draw others members in, because we want to be a part of this friend circle.
You inspire us to be like you. Even in the lows.
Xoxo

 

[gizzygirl]

Feed them garlic, fresh! We bought the healthy bird cookbook and it lists garlic as boosting the immune system.